What’s Really Sexy (and Nobody Talks About It)

Michael DiIorio (00:01)

Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men’s Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I’m your host, Michael Di Iorio, and today I’m joined by Matt Landsiedel and Reno Johnston. Today we are talking about what’s really sexy that nobody talks about. This episode is a love letter to real attraction, the stuff that’s actually sexy that doesn’t fit the typical conventional gay checkboxes, but that still makes you melt. And so what we want you to get out of this episode is to expand that tiny narrow little definition of sexy that has become so normalized in the gay world. And we’re going to open it right up and recognize that whatever your age, race, body type or features, you are sexy too.

But before we begin, a reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we’re creating, you can support the community by making a donation using the link in the show notes. You could also tap on that thanks button on YouTube to show the podcast some love. All right, last episode for those who didn’t listen to it, I recommend you go back and listen to it. We talked about how to survive in a culture of body perfection. So this is a response to that episode, okay?

And one of the things that pisses me off in the gay culture, we might’ve talked about this last time, is how narrow and unrealistic our definition of hot has become. And most of time, as we discovered, it’s not even real. These things are heavily filtered, airbrushed, enhanced in this era of AI. And in my opinion, I tend to see right through it and it’s pretty boring for me personally. And yet it’s impossible to avoid. Social media keeps bashing me over the head with it. I sometimes think,

Instagram has just labeled me as gay and it just thinks it knows what I want to see because of that. Yet it’s not really what I’m interested in. So I keep getting bashed over the head with these norms. And yes, like we talked about last time, you know, I do buy into it. We do buy into it in some ways, which is the power of socialization. When we’re subtly taught to believe that certain bodies and certain looks are the truth of attraction.

But in fact, they’re just conventions. They’re not always reality. So I’m not here to deny that beauty standards don’t exist. Of course, beauty standards do exist, not just for gays, but all over society. But that doesn’t make them true for everyone all the time. And this is where I think a lot of people go wrong.

I am blessed with a perspective and Matt and Reno as well, that most listeners don’t have. I talk to guys all day in my one-on-one coaching. I facilitate groups in my personal life. I’m very much, you guys know this, in the gay worlds. I’m in it, I’m immersed in it. Go to the gay gym, I live in the gay village. My social life is a lot of gay guys. And so I have conversations with real gay men all the time, real deep stuff, okay?

And when I talk about attraction and types and turn ons, whenever the conversation goes there, whether it’s professional or personal, I’m to say 90 % of the time, what people are actually attracted to is nothing like what porn and social media would have you believe, which is very important. It tells me something very important. That attraction is personal, clearly. It’s nuanced, it’s wide, and it’s not as hierarchical as maybe society would have us believe. And that’s what we need to talk about today. So this episode is dedicated to the real sexy, the overlooked sexy, the everyday sexy, the unconventionally sexy, the things that turn us on, even though maybe the algorithm keeps pushing us the same old stuff that maybe we like it, maybe we don’t, but it’s really ⁓ an answer to that. And it dawned on me while I was thinking about this today,  that what we call unconventional is actually just unmarketed.

And so that’s what we’re gonna do today. We’re gonna give this a marketing job. This is gonna be a little sales job and all the things that maybe social media and porn does not do a good job of marketing as sexy. One caveat before we begin, this is not a conversation of, hey, these are flaws, but we love them anyway. No, no, no, no, no. This is a celebration of everything that exists outside of that algorithm, outside of the convention. Not as a second rate, not as a consolation prize.

But as things that actually make someone sexy as fuck, okay? All right. Last week, as I said, I definitely recommend you go back and listen to that episode. If you are just getting on on this one, go back, listen to that one, then join us because we talked about letting go of the pressure to have a perfect body. And this week is about celebrating what’s real. And if you follow my work, you know that I get super jazzed about this topic. So I’m really excited to get into it. So let’s go with our first question. And let’s start with Matt.

What is something that you think is actually sexy that not enough people talk about? Doesn’t get enough love.

Matt Landsiedel (05:24)

Hmm.

I think off the top, I want to say that I am very much attracted, more attracted to men who like don’t know they’re attractive or they don’t act like they’re attractive or they don’t use their attractability as a currency. So there’s a lot of humility in the guys that I’m attracted to. ⁓

But yeah, this was an interesting question. was like thinking, like, what are these things? But then I was like looking to like, was like, it was right here. Like it was, these are all the things I’m attracted to anyways, because usually the things that I’m very much drawn to are not the mainstream things. Like I’m not really attracted to abs or, ⁓ know, big pecs or these sorts of things. It’s just not really what gets me going. So, ⁓ but, so I came up with five, five things. the first one is crooked smiles.

⁓ the guy off of, can never remember his name, the guy off of This Is Us.

Michael DiIorio (06:25)

Yeah, me love it to me.

Matt Landsiedel (06:27)

Yes,

okay. agree. ⁓ my god, melt my heart. He is super sexy. ⁓ So yes, definitely crooked smiles. ⁓ Hands. Hands do not get enough airtime because I, they’re probably for me they’re the number one erogenous like thing. Like when I’m on a date with a guy and I’m watching him work with his hands and like, you know, he talks with his hands and his hands are like masculine and he’s got like nice nails and

these sorts of things like it’s just such a turn on for me so ⁓ hands are right up there as as the number one i think ⁓ blushing i think it’s so so adorable the guy that i was just dating ⁓ would blush when i would say sweet things to him it was just so cute like it’s like so adorable when guys blush ⁓ because it is there is an element of humility in that right like if there’s something about that

The way a guy walks is very attractive for me. The way he carries his body. There’s not one type of walk that I look for. think everyone has their own unique walk. I would say probably the only one that I’m not attracted to would be a frumpy walk. Guys that are frumpy. But I like someone that carries themself. You can tell they’re carrying their weight. There’s something very attractive about that.

And then this one I’m not sure about, but because I, you know, I like the berries just as much as I like the twig, if you know what I mean. So balls would be one that I just don’t think get enough airtime, or at least I don’t hear people saying like, like balls are such a turn on. But I think for me, balls are like just, there’s something really, really sexy about a nice pair of balls.

Michael DiIorio (08:11)

I love those. was so curious. I was going to ask you what’s a sexy walk. ⁓ But yeah, you kind of named it a bit. I’m trying to think of someone who like lumbers. There’s like a lot of guys that like either lumber or they’re like stiff. They walk very stiffly. Yeah. Like is that part of it or is it more of like a ⁓ savvy swing?

Matt Landsiedel (08:33)

Yeah, it wouldn’t be like a sachet. I’m not talking about that kind of walk. It’d be more of like a masculine kind of, but some hip, I like some hip, but not too, too swishy. Cause it’s like, it feels like you’re trying like when you’re little too swishy. ⁓ but it is, it’s not a trying walk. It’s somebody that just walks normally like that. And they’re just maybe guys that are, like, you know, I watch hockey and I’m like, so hockey players, when you see them on TV, like jock.

Like they kind of walk with, they’re just, can tell that they’ve got some muscle in their glutes and they, you know, like guess that would be what I’m drawn to.

Michael DiIorio (09:08)

You know, Matt, you have a walk, right? You have a walk. You got a bit of a sachet in those hips. You definitely have a signature walk. can, I can, I’ve only met you a few times, but I can distinctly remember your walk.

Matt Landsiedel (09:20)

Yeah.

Reno Johnston (09:21)

I’m so curious about how you walk Michael, like I haven’t seen it yet. yeah, I’m really curious. How does Michael walk? Yeah, does he have a stash?

Matt Landsiedel (09:29)

Yeah, Michael walks fast.

Maybe a bit, like think you and I’s walk might be a little similar. think mine is a little bit, cause I’ve got pretty tight hips. So my feet turn out a little bit. I have a bit of like a, ⁓ like a duck walk in a way, maybe, I don’t know.

Michael DiIorio (09:48)

It’s good. I think it’s funny. I don’t know how I walk, but one day, you’ll have to let me know.

Reno Johnston (09:48)

No.

I

gotta come watch you work. Yeah.

Michael DiIorio (09:57)

Give me some notes.

All right, Reena, what about you? What are some of those ⁓ traits that you find attractive that don’t get enough airtime in love?

Reno Johnston (10:07)

Well, I like someone who’s a bit like, like someone who’s a bit off. ⁓

Michael DiIorio (10:19)

Like like Jeffrey Dahmer off or what?

Reno Johnston (10:22)

Although, you know, I shouldn’t say this. really shouldn’t say this, I mean, kind of. But just someone who’s like, I remember identifying a crush on Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. What is it? What do you call that? What does he have?

Matt Landsiedel (10:43)

autism or well they don’t say in the show but neurodivergent yeah yeah

Reno Johnston (10:48)

Exactly.

And I just like, I find that really hot. Someone who’s just like a little, a little strange, a little quirky. ⁓ you know, sometimes I’ll even joke that like, probably shouldn’t say this. It’s too provocative. But ⁓ anyway.

Someone who’s just like a little ⁓ quirky, a little off. I think that that’s really high.

Matt Landsiedel (11:21)

What do you find hot about that? how does that show up physically?

Reno Johnston (11:26)

Yeah

I guess?

There’s something about like uniqueness to me, you know, I’m realizing like I think about some of the guys that I’ve been into even and they’re they’re often and the ones I dated in particular, they’re like a little bit nerdy or they’re just they’re like these like rare finds and I just there’s something really beautiful about that and I also love like

appreciating them, you know, ⁓ and how they sort of like sparkle in that even more. Yeah, it’s something about that that I really appreciate. I also like a guy, I’ve noticed I like a guy who’s just like a little bit ⁓ ratty, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael DiIorio (12:36)

What does that mean?

Reno Johnston (12:37)

⁓ like, kind of skinny, kind of gangly, a cut like a little bit scruffy. ⁓ I, there was a guy I recently, so cute, but yeah, he had like this scruffy sort of skinny, like, somewhat ratty look to him. ⁓ and also he was like, again, that quirkiness, like just…

He had this funny way of communicating where he would kind of fumble over his words, but he was like really, really smart and kind of awkward. And I was like, that’s hot.

And then I love feet. ⁓ I do, I love feet. And someone asked me about this the other day. They’re like, what do you love about feet? And I was like, well, I also love hands, right? And I was like, well, they mentioned that they love hands. And I said, well, what do you love about hands? I was like, probably the same thing that I love about feet in a way is what you love about hands, but there’s just something about like the look of them. And I find

Not in every case, but like people’s hands and feet kind of look similar. And so I love a like lean foot where you can like, like it’s a little bit like you can kind of see like the bone, you know, like I don’t know. It’s, it’s, there’s a very- Kind of, yeah. But I noticed it most commonly in like men who are-

Michael DiIorio (14:05)

Feet? We’re saying bony feet?

Reno Johnston (14:13)

maybe like taller and leaner or like men with a lot of testosterone. There’s something about their hands and their feet where like you can like see the bones and you can kind of see the testosterone and like the veins running through them a little bit. And it’s so sexy. I don’t know. Yeah. I’m just going to say the thing. I’m going to say the thing I was going to say earlier because it ties into this. So

Michael DiIorio (14:32)

not my

Reno Johnston (14:38)

you know, when you see a set of hands or feet, like you can kind of see, like they look strong and you can see like the bone and the testosterone running through them. And it looks like this person could like kill you with their bare hands, kind of. So I think it’s hot when somebody looks like they could like kill you with their bare hands or something, but like they don’t, you know? I’m like, thank you for not doing that. But like, it’s so hot that like you probably could, you know? ⁓

I don’t know, I’m a masochist, guess, but yeah. Yeah, hands, feet, someone who’s a bit off, yeah. And then we’re focusing on physical, right?

Michael DiIorio (15:21)

Yeah, yeah, mainly.

Reno Johnston (15:24)

Okay, I think that’s mostly it for me.

Michael DiIorio (15:30)

What’s

the non-physical one?

Reno Johnston (15:35)

Honestly, it’s like…

how they treat other people. ⁓

I pay attention to that and I just, yeah, it’s something that’s really attractive to me. Like how someone treats other people or behaves toward other people when like no one’s looking, you know, or they think no one’s looking or whatever. then when, yeah, when they’re just kind of like doing their thing and they’re in their element, ⁓ I observe things like that. And it’s like, it’s, it’s a turn on, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Other people, other beings.

For example, yeah.

Michael DiIorio (16:19)

What I love about this conversation with both what Matt shared and with what Rena had shared is I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who have been nodding their heads going, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too, too, me too, me too. And I ask you, how often do you talk about this? Like the conversation that we’re having, how often do you walk around with your friends and talk with us or how often do you look up like, yeah, guys with bony feet, like, or whatever your thing is. But yet, you know, we.

can probably all agree we are attracted to people who treat others with kindness and respect. And yet we just doesn’t, there’s nothing out there about that. Instead we get inundated with, know, abs, youth, whatever, all that other stuff. And so that’s why I love this conversation. I think that if you are listening to this and like nodding your head in agreement, then this just goes to show why we need to have more of these kinds of conversations.

Matt Landsiedel (17:07)

Yeah, exactly.

Michael DiIorio (17:11)

So I think you guys had a lot of them. I’m go with ⁓ one thing and a second one a lot that Matt had said, kind of Matt, you said humility. For me, I go wild for like a shy guy. There can be, you know, like, especially, especially at gay bars, I love finding the guys who are just, they don’t want to be there. I’m like, take me to him. I want to talk to that guy. I find them so attractive. They look a little bit uncomfortable and they’re like kind of stiff.

And in their mind, they’re probably thinking, I don’t belong here, no one likes me. And if they just looked up off their phone and looked at me, I would be like drooling because there’s this very shy kind of awkward looking guy there. And so that’s always been something that I’ve been drawn to. I think it’s because of what you had said, Matt, I think it is because of the humility or maybe what would have said something off, but yeah, I do like that. ⁓ Physically, like.

The two kind of ends, I like a guy who is thick, like dense, like there’s just a lot there. And also a guy who’s short, like a short king. Give me like a five, two, five, three, five, four. So very sexy about that to me. I think that’s very hot. And yet again, I think especially for men, men are socialized. All men are socialized to think that height.

is sexy and that if you are going to be attractive man you need to be whatever six foot whatever. This is especially true in the straight world but also in the gay world but not me give me give me a shark king love it I love that and then another one that’s really that’s.

Matt Landsiedel (18:47)

Does that, can I ask you something? Does that change how you would like, like, let’s say for example, like you would want to bought or top the small guy and be taught by the big guy. that, does that influence it at all? Like the size of the person.

Michael DiIorio (19:02)

No, for me. No, I’ve been topped by short guys and loved it. I’ve topped in the bottom. Yeah, both ways. Yeah. It doesn’t matter. mean, for me, that’s more of a chemistry vibe thing. once our bodies start intermingling, I’ll know where I want to end up.

And then the last one is dadbots. ⁓ from when I talked to guys, as I was saying on the top, when I talked to guys out there, so many guys love a dadbot. They are so attracted to dadbots. And so I don’t think that gets enough love out there. And I do think that there are quite a few people who love a little bit of a belly, a little bit of cushion, a little bit of what do call that? Spare tire. And yet we think so much that we’ve got to get rid of it. It’s not good. We have to not have this otherwise we’re unattractive. And yet when you talk to people out there,

Dad balls are hot. ⁓

Matt Landsiedel (19:52)

Yeah. Yeah, there’s something to like the firmness of a guy that’s really ripped. It doesn’t feel good. Like when you’re meshing your body with somebody that is like super muscular, it doesn’t feel as good as meshing your body. Like it can look better in a sense, but the feeling of having sex with somebody that’s really ripped versus somebody that has more of a softer body, it feels better for me at least with, with somebody that

Michael DiIorio (20:19)

What I’ve noticed is that for the guys who are super ripped, like when people chase them, it’s almost like it’s for the trophy to say that you could and that you did. Like, oh yeah, I that guy over there with all the abs. Yeah, he fucked me. like, yay, it’s this trophy of a check mark, not so much because you’re genuinely attracted to it.

Matt Landsiedel (20:41)

Yeah. Yeah. It’s like almost like a, an external validation. It’s like, yeah, I got that. So it must mean something about me. It’s like, they’re using that as a currency.

Michael DiIorio (20:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Reno Johnston (20:52)

I forgot one. And I would be remiss if I didn’t say it because someone listening will really appreciate this. I love a big nose. ⁓ I love a big nose. Huh? Yeah. And even even if it’s like a little crooked or off or something, like there’s something about yeah, there’s something about a big nose. And if it’s like a crooked, that’s hot too. ⁓

Matt Landsiedel (21:02)

A big nose?

Reno Johnston (21:19)

Yeah, love it. So if you’re out there and you’re listening and you’re self-conscious about your big crooked nose, just know I would eat it up.

Michael DiIorio (21:27)

You

know much that costs to get like rhinoplasty? costs so much money. People spend so much money on that. Yeah. I told the story here about my teeth and how I hated my teeth for so long and I was going to spend all this money redoing my teeth. And then luckily so many people have said, no, my gosh, no, your smile is like one of the greatest. Right. I don’t, but I do now. I’ve Same thing. Like that stuff costs so much money and you know, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be me. And yet I thought that in order for me to be

Reno Johnston (21:33)

Mm-hmm.

Open your mouth, Michael.

Michael DiIorio (21:56)

attractive to make it in this world. I needed to like have perfect teeth.

Reno Johnston (22:02)

No, don’t you dare change that mouth.

Matt Landsiedel (22:05)

Thanks,

Michael DiIorio (22:06)

Speaking

of mouth, another one for me is, ⁓ lisp and accents. I love a lisp like, like, like, ⁓ Matt, you’re talking about the mitzvah with the crooked mouth, like a little bit of a lisp. So a lot to me. And people want to like correct their speech. So they speak perfectly. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s so sexy. It’s something that’s unique and different about you that I think makes you very attractive. Yeah.

Matt Landsiedel (22:10)

Okay.

Reno Johnston (22:29)

Like Mike Tyson. Is he Yeah, think it is. Yeah, Mike Tyson, think. Yeah. Yeah, he has the list and it’s so hot.

Michael DiIorio (22:39)

All right, let’s hear from our audience. So for our listeners and viewers out there, if you’re watching this on YouTube, go ahead and write this in the comments. Now, what are some traits or characteristics that you find sexy that you don’t think get enough love and airtime out there? Okay, so write that down. Let’s hear what you guys have to say. And if you’re enjoying the conversation we’re having here, we want to invite you to our connection circles.

Every month we host two connection circles where Matt and I facilitate small intimate conversations about different topics that we discuss here on the podcast. But in a connection circle, we want to hear from you. So you, our viewers and listeners get the chance to come together in a room. We put you guys in breakout rooms and you guys have a chance to talk about whatever the topic of the month is. If you’re interested in joining us, go to www.gamingman’sbrotherhood.com and check out our events section to RSVP.

Make sure you are on our email list so that we will email you the Zoom link and all the details to join us. All right, let’s do story time for our next question. Matt, share a time when someone surprised you by being not your type, but you still found them attractive.

Matt Landsiedel (23:54)

Yeah, it came to me right away when I was thinking about this last night. It was probably like maybe eight or nine years ago. I was at a nude beach and…

saw this guy and like I wasn’t really attracted to him at first and ⁓ and then we were like we had mutual friends so we were like out in the water and stuff like that and like tinkling around and ⁓ I had wanted somebody to exfoliate my back with sand I always do that when I’m at the beach and he’s like I’ll do it so he like started doing it and then his touch felt really good and ⁓ and then we just totally ended up hitting it off and ⁓ we dated for

two years. And what why conventionally is because he did have more of a dad bod and he had longer hair and he had more like darker features, like almost kind of like Greek looking, which is not usually like what I go for. But he yeah, we had like this insane chemistry. So it was yeah, it was nice.

Michael DiIorio (24:57)

So what was it that drew you and was it the touch that all of sudden your brain was like, hey, wait a minute.

Matt Landsiedel (25:02)

⁓ it was an energy. Yeah. It was totally his energy and like just something. And he had, he had that walk that I’m talking about and he had that like, just, I don’t know what it is, like just this energy. Yeah. That I was really, really captivated by. Yeah. And he was, he’s an attractive guy. Don’t get me wrong. Yeah. He’s just not like the classic guy that I would maybe normally look at or think I’m drawn to.

Michael DiIorio (25:20)

And that’s just it,

Reno Johnston (25:30)

Did that experience change the trajectory of and sort of the orientation of like your dating life, would you say, after that?

Matt Landsiedel (25:43)

that relationship you mean.

Reno Johnston (25:44)

Yeah, and just like, did your preferences shift? Like, did it sort of open things up as, yeah.

Matt Landsiedel (25:51)

That relationship cracked me open in a big way. It was a very painful relationship. So it cracked me open and it sent me into a major spiritual awakening. so, yes, to answer your question, but maybe not how you meant it. It it just cracked me open in the sense of ⁓ being more drawn to energy. ⁓ And my types are so different. If you look at all of my exes and you were to line them up, you’d be like, the heck, like everybody looks so different and so unique.

So yeah, it’s definitely a testament that I’m just really drawn to people’s character and energy and different things like that. ⁓

Michael DiIorio (26:29)

should have asked that as a question. We all kind of go through our exes and shove them on screen.

Reno Johnston (26:34)

Yeah

Michael DiIorio (26:35)

This

is my life. First there was this guy, then there this guy. Oh my God, that’d be interesting. So you’re a don’t follow a type mat? Is there a pattern over time?

Matt Landsiedel (26:46)

I would say that the only thing that I would follow would be masculinity. I’m very drawn to masculine men. I don’t think I’ve ever dated a guy that’s feminine, like feminine appearing or anything. It just, this is not what I’m into. ⁓ But definitely guys who are connected to their feminine energy and like, you know, things like that. So, which I actually really love. I love a guy who’s masculine presenting, but very connected to his feminine energy. think is a beautiful mix.

Michael DiIorio (27:13)

Sounds like you.

Matt Landsiedel (27:15)

Yeah, I guess that would be me.

Reno Johnston (27:18)

your little sweetheart.

Michael DiIorio (27:21)

I swept myself off my feet.

Matt Landsiedel (27:24)

I just need to clone myself apparently.

Reno Johnston (27:26)

Right,

Michael DiIorio (27:30)

What about you? Have you ever had one of those experiences where someone surprised you by not being your type and yet you still

Reno Johnston (27:35)

Yeah,

he’s downstairs on the hammock in the living room right now. Yeah. Yeah. So I was on Grindr years ago and there was this guy started chatting me up and I invited him over for pizza and he said, no, not tonight, but I’ll see you tomorrow. And he came over and I remember this gangly little thing walking down the hallway and

Michael DiIorio (27:42)

wow, tell us.

Reno Johnston (28:05)

I had vowed I wasn’t going to hook up with him ⁓ and wore a pair of underwear with a hole in them just so I wouldn’t, but ⁓ that just made things easier apparently. Because within about 20 to 30 minutes my clothes were off and we were on the couch bumping at ugly. And so yeah, anyway, and then two weeks later, ⁓

He asked me while we were making dinner together, he was like, will you be my boyfriend? And I was like, my God, I was going to ask you too. ⁓ And we dated for two and a half years. ⁓ And we’re still buddies. He comes and visits me at least once a month here, actually. Like we are consistent. And that was, I don’t even know how many years ago that was. It was ages ago. Like we’re…

We might be approaching a decade soon. don’t know. Well, I think so. No, no, no. Hold on. Yeah, we’re getting close. Yeah. It was like eight. Well, eight years. Yeah. Well, something like that. He well, he was he lived in Winnipeg. Now he lives in Seattle. And before that, he was in Vancouver. And yeah, I just like. I was.

Matt Landsiedel (29:14)

Where does he live?

Reno Johnston (29:27)

surprised to be honest. I like, I did not expect you to be my type, you know? But interestingly enough, it does make sense now. Like, he’s weird. Like, sometimes I joke, I’m like, sometimes you give like serial killer vibes, you know? But I, yeah, and he’s just, and he’s like, he’s weird. He’s like, you know, kind of queer in his own way.

you know, a little bit of a nerd, also like, I don’t know, he just, he’s very much himself and very unapologetically so. And just like my ride or die in so many ways, you know, like we, he accepts me, I accept him for all of our fucking quirks, you know, and it’s beautiful. yeah, didn’t see that coming.

Michael DiIorio (30:16)

That’s beautiful. But you still matched on Grindr?

Reno Johnston (30:20)

Yeah, I think he messaged me is what happened and we started talking and then he ended up coming over. So, yeah.

Michael DiIorio (30:28)

So you gave him enough, there was enough attraction there to at least have a conversation.

Reno Johnston (30:33)

Yeah,

yeah, cause I even remember, I was like…

Like, you’re not, he’s attractive, you know, and he was even back then, but I was like, he’s not really my type, you know? And then apparently he was.

Michael DiIorio (30:53)

This is the disservice of, I’m really happy that your story ended up that way, Reno. I don’t think that’s the common story. And this is one of the disservices of apps is because there’s so many options and then just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. I think we throw away or we swipe no, or we ignore so many great guys who could potentially be attractive and could be great partners, but we just, there’s almost too many options. like, like we’re like almost that, that narrow.

vision is like, this is what I’m looking for. I’m to skip everyone who’s not that. And I think that does such a disservice because there’s so many great guys out there who might not have a great, they might actually be your type, but their profile picture is maybe not showing that off or maybe they are a great guy in so many ways. But like in Reno’s example, you might not give them a chance. And when Reno did and look what happened. So yeah, you know, I think that if you’re on apps, it’s to slow down something I’ve learned.

I can go very fast and I’m like, I’m not even knowing why I’m saying no, I’m just going. So if you slow down and like read the profile, then give yourself an actual reason that, okay, I’m saying no, because it forces you to have a reason and it slows you right down.

Reno Johnston (32:06)

It’s interesting too, because like, you would think he would have been my type because I said like, I kind of like these gangly types, right? I’m thinking of like Pete Davidson, like the comedian, or like Machine Gun Kelly, like just like this skinny sort of lean whatever. But then he filled out. And in my opinion, like he just got like really hot, you know, like all of a sudden he had this kind of like daddy bond. And I was like,

You’re actually like so much hotter now too. It’s wild. Yeah. So you just never know.

Michael DiIorio (32:45)

Yeah, you know, that’s why I like meeting people in person. I’ll always say there’s so many people that I met in person that I’ve hooked up with or gone out with. And I’m like, if I had seen you online, I don’t even know if I would have given you the time of day. Yeah. And about energy, it just goes to show energy is such a big piece of attraction. And we really need to talk more about, like, how do you, how do you, how do you like, it’s so intangible. It’s, it’s so that you just need to feel right.

Reno Johnston (33:10)

People have said that to me too before or they literally haven’t even looked at me online sometimes, right? And then we meet in person and they’re like, damn. And I’m like, yeah. Hello? Hello?

Michael DiIorio (33:23)

I actually don’t like when people say that to me. like, oh, you’re, you’re, they say, you’re, you’re a lot hotter in person. Like, what the fuck? Like, well, what am I doing wrong? I want to hear that. I want to hear, like, I want to hear you look exactly as I expected. That’s, that’s like the ideal, but when you’re hotter in person, I’m like, I don’t know if I love that so much.

What about you? yeah, I didn’t even answer this. I don’t have one story, like one cinematic story. ⁓ For me, it’s just been a lot of those happy little surprises along the way. ⁓ Guys who, like I said, are at a bar or at the gym or just walking down the street that, I don’t know, I just see them and I’m like, something about you, I’m just drawn to it. They just have something. Another thing is voice. I can hear someone speaking, I’m very drawn to a voice.

And I’m not saying it necessarily needs to be like a deep voice, just something about a voice for whatever reason, I’m sensitive to that. yeah, I don’t know. I can’t tell you what kind of voice it is, unfortunately. ⁓ But also… ⁓

when people can make me feel comfortable and safe and they’re easy to talk to. So if I meet someone, let’s say at a party, then I really might have physically, but we start talking and whatever, and then we have a good conversation, my attraction will like increase. ⁓ my God, like this person’s turning me on in like my brain and now my dick wants him. And so that happens to me quite bit. you know, the way, you know, the way people carry themselves, the way they speak, the way they converse, their ability to hold space and be present,

That is what makes me attracted to somebody. So even if they don’t start off being attractive to me, they can easily gain it if we get to know each other. And that’s why I don’t really take my types so seriously. Like, of course, yes, I have types, many types, but I’ve realized that when I meet somebody, my body responds very differently. So you could be a hundred percent my type on paper, on Grindr or whatever, and then I meet you and it’s just nothing.

Nothing. Or the opposite where you might not be my type on paper, but then when I meet you, all of a the attraction is there. So, you know, I don’t take too much stock in types, especially online.

Matt Landsiedel (35:44)

Yeah.

Michael DiIorio (35:46)

Yeah, it’s a good approach. You guys both had celebrity crushes, but I can’t seem to think of any. I was going to ask who are some of your celebrity crushes that you would say are unconventional? You named a few, Reno. Do you have any other ones besides Milo? Matt?

Reno Johnston (36:02)

Odell Beckham was my last one. He’s an athlete, Odell Beckham Jr. He’s a little queer, right? Like he’s like straight as far as I know, but he’s just like, there’s something a little queer about him that’s really hot.

Michael DiIorio (36:17)

I know who that is. I’m look this up.

Reno Johnston (36:19)

Welcome back.

Matt Landsiedel (36:20)

Matthew McConaughey when he was in his 30s 40s like he’s been in my fantasies many times. Christian Bale was always one that I really thought was super sexy. ⁓ Chris Hemsworth maybe.

Michael DiIorio (36:35)

Yeah. Those are all like what I would consider like everyone would like those guys. Yeah. No, I think I something I don’t like. Oh, sorry. ahead. Um, one thing that is, I don’t find attractive is like super muscular guys. So you had said Chris Hemsworth, I think that is that Thor? Yeah. Yeah. Like for me, I don’t know. It’s just too, too, too, too, too. I would prefer lean.

Reno Johnston (36:42)

Alright.

Matt Landsiedel (36:45)

No, no, you go.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m trying to think who would be unconventional of guys that I think are attractive.

Michael DiIorio (37:09)

think the one Reno said is a good one for me. What’s his name Reno? Pete. ⁓

Reno Johnston (37:13)

⁓

god. Wife it up. I’m like, what’s up, dude?

Michael DiIorio (37:23)

He’s funny. think guys who make me laugh. That’s that. And then like his, I don’t know what it is about him, but he just has a very animated face. He just makes me laugh.

Reno Johnston (37:31)

funny, weird, like, ⁓ god, lean, like all the things. ⁓

Michael DiIorio (37:39)

So our listeners out there might themselves think, oh my God, I’m weird and awkward and shy. And I have a dad bod. I think that they’re not attractive. And I really hope that this episode helps you see that there are guys out there. And I promise you that Matt Reno and I are not the only ones who find those traits attractive. So I don’t want you going into like, you know, a gym or a bar thinking, oh my God, I don’t belong here because I don’t look the part.

No, you belong there because you don’t look the part. And that doesn’t have anything to do with it. And maybe you do look the part, you just don’t know it, you just don’t see it. Right? Because we, I think a mistake I see a lot of guys make is they think that they need to be what they’re attracted to when they don’t give people the benefit of deciding what they like for themselves. They think they know what I like. This has happened to me, like guys will chat with me and be like,

A guy like you doesn’t want someone like me. like, who the fuck are you to tell me what I want? Like, I will decide if I want you and I’m talking to you and I want you. So let’s go.

Matt Landsiedel (38:41)

Yeah.

Amen.

Michael DiIorio (38:45)

All right, guys, any last words on the unconventionally attractive traits?

Matt Landsiedel (38:54)

No, I feel complete.

Reno Johnston (38:58)

No, just that sometimes when I’m listening to you speak, you’re like really hot, Michael, and I’m just gonna name that publicly. I’m just gonna say it out loud. was like, yeah, sometimes you just catch my eye in a particular way, and I’m like, hello.

Michael DiIorio (39:13)

Is it OK? But OK, this is we’re talking about it. Like, is it is that the way I speakers of the words I’m saying? What is it?

Reno Johnston (39:21)

I don’t know. You know what it is. This is what it is. I think that ⁓ there was a moment, this is kind of vulnerable, that’s funny, I put my foot in my mouth. ⁓ There was a moment like what, like quite some time ago where, I don’t know, you were speaking. Have you ever had this happen where you’re like looking at someone but you’re not really seeing them?

And then you see them and then you’re like, damn, like you were in front of me the whole time. was like, had a moment like that, I think, where, I don’t know, I just, you were talking and I saw you and every once in a while there’s just like something that happens when you’re speaking and I’m like, oh, hey, what’s up? So yeah, I’ve just embarrassed myself now, but that’s okay.

Matt Landsiedel (40:16)

I just need to meet. ⁓

Reno Johnston (40:19)

Yeah, I’m so curious. I am so curious what it’ll be like to meet you in the flesh.

Michael DiIorio (40:25)

I to

say the same thing. I thought you’d be taller.

Reno Johnston (40:28)

Is that what people normally say to you? How tall are you, Michael?

Matt Landsiedel (40:32)

These are around the same height I think actually.

Michael DiIorio (40:35)

⁓ five eight.

Reno Johnston (40:37)

Okay, so I’m probably like a half an inch or an inch shorter than you, think. I think I’m like five, seven and a half.

Matt Landsiedel (40:45)

Yeah. guys would 69 very well. Yeah.

Reno Johnston (40:50)

I’ll see you in Toronto. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, surely.

Michael DiIorio (40:53)

And that’s a wrap. We’re getting into the weeds now.

All right, my friends. ⁓ Thank you, ⁓ Reno and Matt, for being so vulnerable and also for shedding light on you guys got the assignment today. I gave you guys the assignment on celebrating those things that don’t get celebrated enough and you guys did a great job. So thank you so, so much for that. I really hope that the viewers and listeners got something out of this. Thank you for sticking with us for this episode. And remember, if you’re watching us on YouTube, go ahead and tap that thanks button to support the Gay Men’s Brotherhood and the Gay Men Going Deeper podcast. Don’t forget.

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