Dating & Disabilities

Dating is already a minefield to the everyday gay, add living with a disability to the mix and things get even more complicated. In today’s episode host Calan Breckon explores the DO’s and DON’Ts around dating and disabilities in the gay community. He’s joined by special guests David Oliver Wudel and Ryan Michael Williams who both live with different levels of cerebral palsy.

In this episode, we’re unpacking questions like:

  • What is acceptable vocabulary and what is no longer acceptable?
  • What’s the biggest struggle about being a gay man with a disability?
  • How can someone ask questions without coming across as an ignorant ass?
  • and what’s the most important thing the community needs to know when it comes to our gay brothers living with a disability?

At the end of the day, we’re all just looking for the same thing: love and acceptance.

David Oliver Wudel: / @6wheelco

Ryan Michael Williams: @ryanmwilliams82

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All right. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of gay men going deeper, a podcast by the gay men’s brotherhood, where we talk about all things. Oh, sorry. Personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today, I’m your host Calan Breckon and we have two very special guests with us today. We have David Oliver Wudel and Ryan Michael Williams who some of you guys know as one of our moderators in the gay men’s brotherhood. And today we are going to be talking about disability visibility, because we’ve been wanting to do this podcast episode for quite a while now, and now we can finally bring it all to you guys. So I’m not going to lead off with too much,

and I’m going to let David introduce himself and then we’ll move into Ryan introducing himself, and then we’ll jump into the conversation. So David, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me well, hi everybody. My name is David all over what? Ellen. I’m a quitter artist based in Calgary, Alberta, and I live with a disability called Cerebral Palsy.

Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us, David. I’m super excited to dive into today’s episode and her Ryan. How about you? Go ahead and introduce yourself there. Hey everybody. My name is Ryan I’m like Calan said, I’m one of the moderators in the gay man’s brotherhood and I am a, oh God. Do I have to say it almost 40 year old men,

gay men living with cerebral palsy and I have been my whole life. So I’m happy to be here. Nice. I’m so excited to dive in with both of you guys on today’s episode. So let’s start off with the basics because I know that there’s going to be a lot of gay men out there listening to this who are very ignorant like myself, just because I simply haven’t had a lot of people in my life who have had any types of disabilities.

So let’s jump into the easy stuff and start off with just kind of like what’s some acceptable vocabularies and what’s unacceptable vocabulary is nowadays when discussing disability, because I know that for myself, but when I was bringing this topic up, when Ryan and I were talking about it, I was very nervous and very scared to like, say something wrong. I was like,

ah, man, I don’t want to get anything wrong. I don’t want to like, like say anything bad or make anybody feel bad. And that’s kind of why I want to do this episode because I want to open that door so that, you know, it opens the door for learning and education and yes, you might get it wrong once in a while,

but as long as you’re doing it in the right way and you’re opening those doors and you’re trying your best, that I think is the most important thing. So David will take it over to you. What are some, you know, what’s the kind of vocabulary that you prefer when somebody is talking about it and, and bringing up to spill these? Well,

I use a wheelchair full time. And so when someone’s referring them to me, I, I like to be referred to as a wheelchair user, not someone that is defined confined to a wheelchair because I, I just think that sort of language is very dismissive. I’m cheap, but it doesn’t define me way up. Gotcha. So it’s you use a wheelchair you’re not defined by the wheelchair because that’s kind of like more open,

inclusive language. Gotcha. And is there any other terms that like, people are not supposed to be using these days? Things that like, people might think, oh, this is okay, but it’s just, you don’t, you don’t talk like that anymore. Well, I never liked the term handicap. I think that term is now for archaic. It might’ve been acceptable,

you know, 30, 40 years ago, but not until electrical. Gotcha. So I can say on the handicap language because it’s not. And then also, even when I was bringing this up, I was just like, do I say disability? Or do I say like differently-abled person? Cause I know that there are people in the world who also prefer that language.

So I know when I was talking to you guys, I was asking like, what’s your preferred language? Is it kind of like, what’s your preferred pronouns? It could be equated to that where it’s just like different people like to be used different terms. Yeah, totally. Like I don’t mind that term disabled cause I am, but again, it doesn’t define who I am as a prom game.

Right. Exactly. Well, Ryan, I’m curious to see what you have to say about this. I’m very much on the same page as David. I think any as far as what, what is acceptable? You know, I try to be a little bit lenient because I understand people are, are learning, right? Like you said, it’s like kind of like pronouns.

And as that changes, people are going to slip, they’re going to make mistakes. It’s okay. I, I very much prefer the term disabled to handicap was what we used when I was growing up. So I’m very used to it. But as we, you know, as we’re progressing, it’s like disabled is it’s, it’s more respectful. Right?

It’s just, there’s so negativity connected with, with handicap that it’s just better to let it go. And it’s hard because sometimes, you know, you’ll get people who you’re fine joking around with, you know, people in your circle and stuff like that. And, and then there’s people that you just know don’t, don’t talk to me like that. Like,

don’t come, I’ve been called things like a GAM, things like that though. Those are so derogatory. Right. And people think it’s funny, but it’s really not. Right. Like it, it, it, it kinda makes you think, well, how do you see me then? Right. And it goes right to what David said. I feel like names even define me by my disability.

So that’s why the importance of, of kind of paying attention to how we say things makes a difference, because I don’t want to be defined by my disability. Right. Basically anything that we used in the nineties is pretty much no longer acceptable Looking at the nineties. I was like, I was like, oh, that was just, you know, not that long ago,

but now I’m like, oh no, that was actually much longer ago than I thought. I know. I know I did that the other day. Somebody said 95. And I was like, I was not even 20 that like, holy crap. Like, Yeah. We’re, we’re a lot older than me, I think. Yeah. I think so.

But yeah. I mean, that’s basically the way I look at it as anything that we used in the nineties, you know, that was okay then it’s pretty much not. Okay now. Yeah. Okay. Well this kind of pairs into the next question. So like, what’s been the biggest struggle about being a gay man, living with a disability in the gay community who wants to,

who wants to jump in on this one? Because I’m sure both of you do, but let’s, you know what, let’s go to David first. Okay. Well, my, my story is somewhat of a unique one. I think I came out at the tender age of 31. I’m 34 now. So I’m just kind of coming to grips with embracing my queerness and,

and kind of trying to immerse myself in, in the, in the community and, and be a positive role model for people out there. I love baby gate. Yeah. And honestly, like I, from a very young age that I was getting, but growing up, I already faced the, the label of having a disability. So I fought really hard to,

to suppress like queerness growing up because I just didn’t want to have two labels attached to me. So that was my, that was my big thing. Gotcha. So you’re like, well, I already have this. I don’t want to have to deal with this big crap over here as well, because we all know the gays don’t exactly not deal with.

Right. So you waited a little while until they came out. You’re like, you know, okay, cool. I’ve, you know, the disabled thing, all of that going on, I’m going to embrace this queer side of me now. So let’s just like go over here and focus on that. For me, it came to the point where it’s like,

you either have to come out or quite honestly come out or check, check out of here because there’s no point in living facade and not living as authentically as you can. I’m obviously so happy that I’m sitting here talking to both of you today because that just proves that I made the right decision. Oh, fully, fully. So I’m curious, what’s the biggest struggle been around being gay and,

you know, living with cerebral palsy and being part of the gay community. I think the most, I think the most obvious one would have to get him down to dating. Cause again, there’s already a soul so much that we need to worry about being disabled, but then when you add the queerness factor on top of that, that’s, that’s a whole nother Definitely for everybody dating.

Yeah. And then the number one question that I get that I can’t stand is because they look, they look at me and they asked me, does it work? And that’s that I’m not doing in itself. Like it’s, it’s hard enough to date, but, and then if that’s the first impression that people see from you, it’s, it’s very hard to overcome that.

Definitely. And, but that also speaks to like the whole gay community as a whole, you go on Grindr or something like, like an app equivalent to, and sometimes the first thing that people send you is like a Dick pic and a whole pick and this and that. And it’s just like, if that’s the only language we as gay men are learning how to speak.

We’re teaching the younger generations that like, this is your only value. This is where your value. And that’s not true. That’s not your only value that is not even, I don’t even say that that’s a value. I want to know the person. I want to know the mind. I want to know what’s going on there. A relationship for me is,

you know, a long-term like forever thing. And it’s like, your body will change. Things will change. Accidents can happen. You never know what’s going to happen in the long-term of your life. And I look at my grandparents were together for like 60, 65 years before my grandpa passed away. And it was like, they made a commitment to like be together every day.

But it was the mind that kept going. It was the mind. That was the amazing part. Right. And that’s the thing. I always remind people when I’m, when I’m faced with those superficial moments, whether we want to believe it or not. No, all of us face the prospect of being disabled. In some ways it might not be obviously right away,

but it’s, it’s very much a reality for everybody. Oh, definitely. Cause the older you get our bodies aren’t meant to just stay young 20 fresh twinks forever. You’re eventually my knees. I’m a very tall man. My knees, my back. So I’m curious, Ryan, what about you? What would you say is probably one of the biggest struggles of the biggest issues you’ve had in regards to the gay community?

Honestly, one of the biggest struggles I’ve had is the superficial reality. So like you said, Kellen, when you go on the dating apps and you see these pictures, there’s all these built men with the muscles and the, you know, when they’re skinny and they’re they’re, I will never look like that. I can’t look like that. I can’t lift weights.

I can’t, there are things that prevent me from looking like that. And it is very intimidating. You know, when you, when you look at these people on the apps, you honestly look yourself and go, why would somebody want somebody like me when they can have that? Right. And I know you’re not supposed to compare yourself to other people,

but it’s so hard when it’s staring you in the face. It’s so hard. And so for me, that then turned into getting into my own head, right? Because that turns into, I will never be good enough. I will never have what these people have. Nobody will want me. It sounds very grim, but I mean, these are the thoughts that we deal with,

right? Because like I said, you’re looking at it right in front of you. And you’re like, how am I going to find somebody when there’s all of this other stuff out there? So I think for me, that was the biggest struggle is how do you get somebody to see, like you were talking about to see you for the person you are instead of the superficial stuff they see in front of them.

And I dunno, it just feels so much bigger. Like the job feels so much bigger because I have to convince somebody that I am the person that I am not based on these superficial, you know, pictures, I guess in one way, we actually have it better because in the end, like when we find a relationship, it’s probably going to last because we,

we did the work, you know, because we had to, we had no choice. We had to do the work, but it’s difficult. I compare and despair game, everybody, everybody does the compare and despair game. But I always remind myself when, if, and when I use those apps and you’re looking at somebody, a picture can only tell you so much.

All it says is the aesthetic. You have no idea. Maybe that person, maybe she crazy, maybe she crazy girl, but you’re like, oh, this is why you’re sick. Okay. I see you. You know? And it’s like you said, Ryan, like you kind of predetermined Ridley had to do the work and anybody who wants to date,

you would have had to probably do the work as well to get to the place where you are. And that’s like a filter that other people don’t really necessarily have to go through. And I think about, you know, people who get into relationships with other people simply because of their aesthetic. And I’m just like, do you, do you only want to be with them because of the way they look,

because that’s going to change, that’s going to like, people get old, like it happens. And I’m just looking at people. I’m like, okay, there, I hope that everything else is deeper. I hope that you’re still developing minds and you challenge each other to grow and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I definitely hear you on the,

the dating app front. So would you say that you get discounted a lot more often when you’re in the dating apps simply because Yes, From my experience, it is. I mean, again, some people are based on that superficial reality, right. And because there’s something wrong with us, they discount us or they look at us, David, you probably have a little bit more experience with this particular thing than I do,

but they can look at you and go that’s too much work. Right. There’s there’s to them, there’s extra work that comes with being in a relationship with somebody, with a disability and they just look at it and go that’s too much work and just count as right out, right away. Yep. And I think for me, the way I tend to run into a lot is,

is, you know, I kind of flirt my way past the first couple visual questions when it comes to talking about anything with my disability, then it’s like, you’re all, you’re almost having to over oversell yourself and, you know, kind of reassure people right away that you know, that you know what you’re doing and you’ve been through this before. And like,

you know, you’re kind of driving the onus on yourself when it’s not entirely fair when you’re in a relationship, there’s two people. Oh yeah. It takes two to tango. Yes. A hundred percent. So how, so if you’re on the dating apps and people want to talk to you and have questions, how can somebody go about doing that without coming across as like a giant douchebag or an ignorant asshole?

Because I mean, I’m sure there are, there’s, there’s millions of people all around the world and you know, I’m sure there’s not everybody who’s just looking at that aesthetic. So when it does come to people and they’re like, oh, okay, I want to ask them questions, but how do they do that without sounding like a Dick or an ignorant ass?

Oh, well, I always try to kind of beat people to that question. Like I always say like, is there anything you want to know do ask me, like I an open book. So I kinda kinda cut them off in the past before they have the cash to broke to the questions themselves. And then, and then it evolved into hopefully a respectful conversation.

Yeah. Do you ever use like comedy and joking? Cause like most people do that when they feel uncomfortable, it’s your Tinder profile and you have yourself and then you like, yes. Just in case, you’re wondering, you know, I do use a wheelchair full time in case that’s a shocker to you. I mean, I think, I think for me when I,

when I came out like that first year, like, I’ll be honest. Like I came out and then I was on Tinder right away. Cause, cause I was like, oh, okay, here we go. Like you got it Right on every. Yeah. So I have to be that I, I was obviously sneaker, but I just,

I just feel it’s it’s to, to joke about it now is kind of doing, doing me a district. Okay. So there’s no joke in that goes on. All Right. See, I’m learning stuff now. I mean, some people are comfortable with those jokes, but the older I get, the less funny they are. Yeah. Because it’s always the same jokes probably over and over.

Yeah. And it’s like, oh, I heard that one, you know, a million times. And what about you, Ryan? What about, pardon me? Somebody asking questions. How did they do that? Without coming across as like an ignorant ass, You know, one of the best ways to do that is say, I have a question.

I don’t know how to word it. And I don’t want to come across like an asshole, say it straight out because then I know that you have a question and you’re struggling with how to word it. Right. At least then I know that you’re aware that I might come across weird and then I can answer it for you. Because from my perspective,

I want to give you the answers you’re looking for. Right. I want to make you feel just as confident in me as I do. And so if you just say, I have a question, don’t know how to ask it and I might sound ignorant. Okay. You know, and, and I, I do, it was very neat for me to hear David’s perspective on the jokes,

because I’ve always considered myself lucky when it comes to CPE because I, I am not in a wheelchair. I can walk, I can, you know, function all of that stuff. And I acknowledged that I could have had it way differently. And I do joke about it. You know? Like I, I always tell people that the hunchback of Notre dam is my life story.

That’s that’s, you know, like, but for me it works right. If I laugh about it, if I joke about it, then other people can see that it’s okay to, and it’s okay to make mistakes. We all make mistakes. Like you putting me, you know, even when talking to other disabled people, my boyfriend is trans I’ve made countless mistakes.

Trust me. So, you know, even though I have that disability doesn’t mean I’m immune from making mistakes as well. So yeah. It’s best just to ask it straight out and say, I might sound like a bitch, but at least I know you tried. Right. You kind of prefacing it with just like, Hey, this is not meant to sound as a douche-y thing.

This is like a genuine, honest, curious question. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. And David, do you, and it’s interesting to see that, like, David, you were like, not so much on the jokes and Ryan, you were like, Hey, I like the jokes because I make the jokes because we’re all different people. We all have different preferences.

We all live life differently. So David coming back to you with that, how, how do you, you know, how could somebody ask questions without coming across as like a douche? Honestly, I try and I try, I try really hard not to bring out the fact that I have a disability right away. The fact that if we connect on an emotional level and you have the same interests and they’re truly,

you know, interested in at the end of the day, I don’t think it should matter. Yeah, totally. A hundred percent. Yeah. It’s like when people say they have preferences and this, that, and the other, it’s like, oh, I like people who are tall, but then somebody who’s, you know, very short comes along.

It’s just like, are you going to discount them simply because they’re not like the required height that you thought you liked. It’s like, personality is so much more personality. And like, I’m a very mental person. Am I like to say I’m CPO sexual because I’m like, you have to like tickle me up here in my brain before you can take me anywhere else that could come in so many different packages and sizes and all of that.

So it’s just like, that is my number one go to, and that’s just the way it is for me. So, so we’ve been talking a lot about like, kind of like maybe some negative things and that kind of stuff. What are like the positive things? What are the positive sides of, you know, living with a disability I’m Ryan,

do you want to go in or Sure. One of the, honestly, one of the biggest positive things for me is it, it gives us something to talk about quite often that will, you know, if, if somebody comes along and they ask questions, it opens the door to have conversation. So, you know, it’s, it’s a good icebreaker,

I guess, is the best way to put it. Right. It makes flowing into conversation real easy. You’re like, oh, look, there’s that hot guy over there. I’m going to look, talk to him about my disability. Cause it’s there. You know? So for me, that has been one of the good things and the other very good thing.

Like you said, Callan people are forced to look past and see my mind, see the person that I am. And that for me is a good thing because it is forcing the gay society out of the superficial box that they live in and they have to see the whole package. And so I like to, I like to feel that I’m doing the gay community,

a service by making people look at my mind. Yeah. Yeah. We do. We force people to look up other places you have to. And I like it. I like it a lot. Yeah. So those are the two biggest ones for me that make it really good. You know? And then when people do start looking outside that box,

the friendships that you make, the relationships that you have, they’re incredible because these people took the time to understand. Right. So on the other side, it’s incredible. Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, as you know, gay men with, with disability, we, we essentially have all the power where we want the conversation to go and how we want it to lead off.

Because I think it’s our job to kind of create sure. Those flying fellows out there that we, that we got this, like, we know what we’re doing. So in a lot of ways we’ll be, we have the power. Yeah. So what has, so what has living with a disability taught you about yourself in life? Cause I know that you’re a fresh baby gay,

so I’m sure you’ve learned a lot of new things recently about, Yeah, I have, well, number one, it taught me to not be so shipper facial. And it goes back to what Ryan was saying earlier, not comparing yourself to others and wishing you were, you know, wishing you were in a different place than you are because honestly where you are is pretty good.

So I think, no matter one thing, like disability has taught me patience for across the board. I’m like patience in all aspect of life. Yeah. I can only imagine you’d need to have a lot of patients and to develop patients. Cause you’re like, I want to do something quickly and then it’s not going to happen so quickly sometimes. Yeah.

Mike Quigley is like, give me half an hour, 45 minutes. That’s my, I’ll get something done really quick for you. But I, I don’t, I don’t ever sit anything. I don’t wanna, I don’t want my disability to when. Yeah. And you know, something just popped into my head and I wanted to say it straight out because we’ve talked a lot about superficial reality.

And I just wanted to say that, you know, we go through it too. We look at these hot guys and we go, oh, they’re not going to talk to me. They’re so hot there. You know, we, we go through that superficial thing to where we look at people and think that they won’t talk to us because they’re so hot.

And I mean, you know, the, the, the partner that I ended up with, I’d never dreamed in a million years that a guy like that would end up with me, we go through at T. So I just wanted to make that clear so that, you know, anybody watching this, or even you Callen don’t feel like you’re the only one that,

you know, you guys are the only ones that play superficial reality. We do it too. And we get proved wrong all the time. And even everybody goes through supervision. I have those moments where I’m just like, why would a guy like that date me? Oh, all the time. I’m like, no, he’s never going to look at me.

He’s never going to talk to me. And that’s my own stuff in my own head. And we all have that. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes to point is that counting is like, I think that boils down to human nature. We all, we all deal with that. And some of us are, are better at disguising our big reality better than most.

But we, at the end of the day, we, we all struggle with. Yeah, exactly. I’m curious, Ryan, cause you talked, you brought up a relationship, so you’re in a relationship. So obviously you’ve gone through a lot of these, you know, struggles online and all this kind of stuff. What, like what kind of adventure was that in going through the dating world and like,

you know, finding a partner and actually like having, cause like I’m still single. I’m like, okay. It was a mess, man. I had gone through a couple people that I kind of adopted this mentality of this is the best I can do and dated a couple people that perhaps I ought not have and gotten myself into situations that I’m like,

whoa, this is way more drama than, than I bargained for. And what I realized, like I, I stopped dating, I would say year and a half ago and started doing work on myself and just focused on that. And on the other side of that, when I adopted this mentality of, this is what I want, this is what I don’t want.

It felt for lack of better terms, normal. I was able to go through the profiles and go, Nope, this person just wants sex or that person, you know, and find what I wanted. But before I got there, it wasn’t mass honey. It was like, I can’t even like, you know, and it really proved that you attract what you put out.

You know, it really proved that. And like David said, we have to be patient. And that is so hard, you know, I’m, I’m damn near 40. I didn’t want to die alone. I, I honestly had this fear that I was going to just die alone, you know? And when I met my partner, I was not looking,

I was not, I was on the apps, but we all have the apps on our phone, you know, they’re just there. I wasn’t actively looking and then it just happened. And honestly, there’s something to that, you know, stop looking, stop trying to make it happen. As soon as you do that, things just start to fall into place.

Yeah. So it, so am I correct in saying that like before hand, before you started doing the personal work, it was like, I’ll take what I can get. And then once you stop doing that and you’re like, you know what, screw that. I’m just going to do me. I’m going to focus on me, get my head on straight.

And then everything just kind of started following suit. Hmm. Interesting. And it was, it was, it was take what you can get because it’s the best you can do. Right. Because you have this mentality of, I can only do so good because I’m disabled. I’m never going to end up with a hot guy because I’m disabled. You have all these barriers.

The second I did that work though, man, I tell it made a shit ton of difference. It really, Even I used to think like that before I did my work where it was just like, oh, this is the best I’m going to get. If like, even like slightly attractive guy. Like we, I was just like, well,

this is the best I’m going to get. So I’m just going to go for it, whether she’s crazy or not, and I’ll deal with it. I see my thing was if, if an, if a very attractive men liked me, I was like, what is wrong with you? Why, where is your flaw? What is it Got? I still think that sometimes they buy for me.

I’m just like, why? Why do you like me? What’s wrong. Exactly. Oh my goodness. What about you, David? Have you been, have you, now that you’re here and queer and everybody’s getting used to it, have you been on the dating scene? Well, I, yeah, I would say probably less now because of the world and the way it is right now.

But like you said, in the beginning, it was like, yeah, here we go. We’re going to go, you know, both, both first and you know, try and right at it. Like I was not shy, but every out by possibly could. Cause I, I, you know, I, I had a lot of, I had a lot of time to make up for,

I thought that when I kinda got trying to play the player game, I realized, you know, I kinda asked myself, why did I come out? And the Andrea, like I bottom line is I want to be happy and I want to find love. And to me, those are like the, the only thing that mattered. Gotcha. So you had to stop playing the play again,

You’re out there collecting those. You were collecting matches like Pokemon cards, right? You can just like, yeah. Yeah. That was definitely not a good thing. So you kind of focus. So I guess like, I mean COVID the world. It did it shut down everybody’s life. At least if you were a good person, it shut down your life.

Cause I definitely know there were people who are not following rules, but if you’re like myself, it was like, things basically shut down. I think in Toronto now things are just starting to opening up just this past weekend. Actually, this is it’s coming out later, but like reasonably, I had gone out and it was like the first time. And like there wasn’t plexi classes.

Everybody could like get up and walk around. And I was like, this is so weird. And I, Yeah, I know. And I, I worry like pro where I am. We’re still, I mean, we’re not in a log yard or anything, but it’s still pretty bad here in Alberta. But I often wonder like when we do go back to normal,

like, am I going to go out and be, you know, cause you kinda need their practice. Like king people are just doing the same thing every day. And you, you getting into this very unhealthy cycle. Yeah. In order to date again, and to be a normal human being like, it’s so weird to just be like, so how do we do this?

Am I allowed to like hug you? Am I allowed to touch you? Like, do we need to sit six feet apart on our date? Like, I don’t know. Everybody has different comfort levels. It’s the whole wild adventure out there in the dating world. Totally. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. So if after today’s episode, what do you guys want people to have walked away from learning in today’s episode?

I would say for me, it’s like we, we have disabilities and yes, we’re no different than the average game man, perhaps, but aren’t we all different and don’t, we all want the same thing just because it looks a bit different. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Yeah. And yes, we all do want the exact same thing at the end.

I mean, unless you’re some weird sociopath, I think most people just want, like they want love and they want to be loved and they want to give love. But so many people have all of these walls of like this fear and it actually, it goes back to kind of what you were talking about earlier. I think Ryan, about how like you have a filter,

so people have to have done that work. Whereas somebody maybe not living with a disability, they aren’t forced to do that work. You know? So they’re out there just, you know, throwing whatever they want all around and portraying whatever they want without actually having done the work. So you’re getting the veneer of people. Whereas with you what your explanation was,

it was just like, ah, no veneer, this is again, this is it. This is what you get fucking amazing. You’re like, you’re welcome. We can’t hide it. Right. We can’t, it’s not something that I can warm you up to the idea and bring it out later. It’s there. So you accepted or you don’t, you know,

I guess, I mean, that goes back to my answer about your question Kalyn. What do I want people to get out of it? Don’t make assumptions. Ask questions, go ahead. You, you, aren’t going to offend me if you do it the right way or say, you know, explain yourself. You’re not gonna offend me. Ask questions.

I’d rather you that then make assumptions because you might be putting an assumption on me that isn’t isn’t there for me. Right? Like just because we are differently, abled does not mean we are completely incapacitated. Does not mean we can’t function does not mean we don’t know how to live life and, and do things. Normally, if, if we have limitations,

we will tell you what those limitations are. That’s those are ours, not yours. Right? So yeah, that, honestly, that is the biggest thing. Don’t make assumptions and just ask, don’t be afraid to ask. Nice. Today’s been a very eyeopening and educating episode for me, which I’m glad I needed, I needed to do it. I wanted to do it.

And I think, I hope a lot of people out there are listening and getting a lot of, you know, good little tippets as well about dating and you know, hopefully they’re going to think twice about making those assumptions next time. They’re on them. Date maps. Yeah. All right. Well, today has been magical. I am so grateful to have had this conversation with you guys.

David, thank you so much for joining us, Brian. Thank you so much for joining on today’s episode. Is there any last little bits or anything else you want to throw out there before we leave for today? Yeah, go ahead. All right. You know, I just want to, for anybody who is disabled watching this find your confidence because as soon as you find that confidence,

people are drawn right to you. So do the work you gotta do, you know, find your confidence and once you do it will work out so much better. Yeah. And that’s just, it like just kinda embrace who you are and know who you are is enough. Nice. Love it. All right. So let’s do a little bit of promo David.

If people are interested, cause you’re an our teeth, what you do, great work. So where can people find you if they want to, if they want to search out. I thank you very much. Yeah. I’m I’m on the number six we’ll cope. And then my website is six field Awesome. So I’ll make sure to put that kind of those links into the show notes.

If anybody’s curious and Ryan, if anybody wants to connect with you, is there somewhere you prefer them to connect with? I am everywhere. I am. I am. I am inside the gay man’s brotherhood. You can find me there. I’m on Facebook, Ryan, Michael Williams. You can find me there. Yeah. And I’m pretty easy to find.

Awesome. Cool. All right. Well, this has been another fantastic episode of gay men going deeper. If you like to what you heard today and you love what we’re throwing out there, please hit that subscribe button. If you’re watching on YouTube and click that little bell. So it notifies you every time we do new episodes on Thursdays, if you’re listening to us on a podcast,

podcasting platform, give us a rating there. If you’re listening on apple, give us a five star, leave a review. We love getting reviews. We love reading reviews. And if you’re not part of the gay men’s brotherhood, which is our free peer to peer support group, you can join us in Facebook at gay men’s brotherhood. And I think that that is it.

So thank you again, both of you so much for joining and educate and everybody in today’s episode, peace love rainbows have the best day ever everybody bye.

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