Interview with Jordan Bach; Life Coach, Writer and Motivational Speaker

Hello? Hello. Hello. Welcome to another episode of gay men going deeper today. It is me Calann. I’m your host and it, this is a podcast. All about personal development, mental health, and sexuality. On today’s episode. I am so excited. We have the amazing Jordan Bach joining us. He is a life coach, a motivational speaker and writer.

So welcome to the show, Jordan, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. So I wanted to dive into so many things with you today. I actually just had Stephen Lovegrove on and he, and I actually talked about you on the show because you were kind of our first introduction into the personal development world, especially being a gay man.

And I think that was like, maybe back in like 20 2012, 2013 ish. Yeah. So you came up and so that’s why I was like, oh, I should reach out to Jordan and see if he wants to do an episode. Like you were definitely, you were definitely like on the forefront of everything because also Gabrielle Bernstein was kind of my first spiritually awakened teacher.

My friend recommended a book of hers and that was like, literally my first like aha moment into that world. And I know that you two were very close, so that by association, that’s how I found out about you. So jump in and tell us a little bit more about yourself, who you are, what you do. And what’s been going on lately.

Still trying to figure out who I am still don’t know how to describe what I do. I know I’m not the only one who feels that way, but I’ve been working as a life coach. It’s been my only job that I’ve ever had. I graduated college and immediately actually, as a result of, of Gabby Bernstein started working as a life coach,

Gabby. I ran into Gabby one day at a market. And that day I had been pulling my hair out, stressed, trying to figure out how, you know, what job should I, should I, should I take? Or where should I go and hope that they’ll hire me. And I went, I had started at Parsons school of design.

That’s where I went to university in New York city. And I was always interested in marketing and branding. So that’s what I studied at school. And when I graduated, I started interviewing at these marketing jobs that had fashion companies and larger brands. And something just felt really off to me. It felt as if I was forcing a square into a circle or vice versa.

And then I had one interview on a very cold rainy day in far west Chelsea at a fashion brand. And I walked in and sat down and was actually quite excited about this particular job. And I was, I, I was prepared. I was excited. You know, my energy was good. And for whatever reason, the woman who was interviewing me was so horrible to me,

her energy was so dark. She was determined. It seems to make me feel small and to make me feel stupid in this interview, which lasted probably 45 minutes. And at the end, right in front of me, she picked up the phone as I’m sitting right in front of her at her desk, she picked up the phone called ostensibly a colleague and said,

Nope, yeah, no, he’s no, he’s not good. And then hung up the phone and said, thank you. And I was, it was just, it was the most, it was the wildest thing because you know, I come from a very tough family in the sense that we don’t hide our emotions when we fight, we it’s, we really fight.

But when we love, we love completely and fully. And that’s one of the reasons why, you know, my family and I are extremely close to each other. And I grew up where in a home where you can say the harshest things, you can, you can say what’s really on your mind, but at the end of the day, you know,

that you’re, that you’re really being supported and that people really love you. And this was a scenario where there was no love and all harshness. And I walked out and I’ll never forget that day. And that weather, that, that rainy, windy weather walking out of that door and that door slamming behind me on the street in New York and saying to myself,

I’m never going to another one of these interviews again. So then I was between a rock and a hard place because I lived in New York city, had to pay rent and obviously had to support myself. And so I was that morning. I met Gabby Bern, or I ran into Gabby Bernstein. I was like, what am I going to do? How am I going to pay my bills without compromising my integrity?

And that for me has, has remained such an important part of my life. And my career is how do I pay my bills and how do I make a living without compromising my integrity and to go back to one of those interviews and to keep putting myself in a situation where I felt it was draining me of my life force, not just exhausting me or inconveniencing me,

but it truly felt like my life force was being drained. I ran into Gabby Bernstein and she said, I told her what was going on. I was so stressed out and she goes, Jordan, how have you not realized yet that you’re meant to help people on like a psychological spiritual level? It’s so clear to me, how can you not see it?

And I said, well, I’m interested in that stuff, but I never thought I could actually do it as a job. And she goes, yup, you’re going to do what I do. I want you to go home. I want you to create a website and I want you to offer your help to people. And I was like, really,

but I don’t know what, what do I do? What do I say? I’m going to, I’m going to be a fraud. I don’t know what that is, what I’m doing. I went home and I did what she said. I made an offer on my website and I, you know, shared it on. Then it was, you know,

Facebook and sure enough, people started asking me for my help. And from that very first Skype call I had with my very first life coaching client, I was a little nervous and I didn’t really know what I would say. And I was afraid that they would say, and actually we had the call. I thought it went okay. But I really thought that what was going to happen was they were going to go on their social media and be like,

I just had the weirdest, most unhelpful experience with someone and I just paid them. And that was not what happened. They came back and said, that was one of the most helpful conversations I’ve had in my life. How can we continue working together? And so that was way back then, like a decade ago. And I haven’t stopped since, and I still do that today.

Oh, wow. That’s amazing. And I just need to say, I fully understand what you say when you’re like, life force is being trained because I’ve had those jobs where it’s just like, I just can’t do this. Like my whole being is fighting against this and it just feels so wrong, but this is what we’re told we’re supposed to do.

And what we like, quote, unquote, have to do that. Like once you get out of that mind frame and you shift into like, no, what am I supposed to, what am I here to do? What am I supposed to be here to do for the world? It’s a completely different energy. And you get so much life given back to you through just being yourself and putting out those good vibes.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. And I do have to say, you know, you asked me who, who are you and what do you do? And so that’s what I do is I speak with people about their, the inner contours of their private lives every day. And to answer the former question, who are you, I’ve learned who I am through doing the work that I do through having the job that I do.

I’ve learned who I am through my compassion, through my understanding through my discernment. And I think discernment is a huge topic that we can talk more about today because compassion without discernment is, is sloppy. And sometimes not helpful. Sometimes hurt is, is sometimes dangerous and discernment or judgment without compassion is, is, is devoid of meaning and purpose. So those two together I’ve really learned between compassion and discernment.

And then of course, understanding and understanding that as my Angelou said, you are human. Nothing. Human is alien to me. And that’s the energy with which I speak to people and with which I, I listened to other people that nothing human is alien to me through doing that in my work I’ve learned who I am. I’ve learned who I really am on a,

on a deeper, on a deeper level. And it makes it, it makes it so much easier to walk through life when you know who you are on a soul level, when you know your soul essence, your soul signature, then if you’re walking around trying to be who you think you should be and what that sounds like, what that looks like. I fully fully agree with you.

I want to touch back on, you were talking about the kind of imposter syndrome that you had right at that very start. And, you know, this is obviously the only job that you’ve only ever had. So how did that look at the beginning of your, if this journey and working through that kind of imposter syndrome, how did you personally work through that?

Because I know that a lot of listeners struggle with that specifically and being like that worthiness being good enough. How did you work through that and build that muscle for yourself? Well, to be completely transparent and open, I w when Gabby Bernstein, for example, said to me that day, it’s clear to me that you should be in the helping and healing profession,

because w w w w what she was saying was you are psychologically astute. You’re spiritually astute, you’ve studied. You spent, I spent my entire adult hood at that point. And my adolescents, really, since I was in my early teens, reading a lot, studying, going to classes and courses, even traveling to go to, to, to,

to, to go to retreats and to go to ceremonies and that sort of thing. And so it wasn’t that I, one day had an idea like, you know what, I’m going to be a life coach. It really was, it was a process of actually accepting that I knew more than I was giving myself credit for. And it was also an acceptance of the idea that there are more people on the planet in need of healing than there are healers.

And so it was almost a sense of I’m accepting responsibility for the fact that I, for me personally, I couldn’t just walk around with the knowledge that I had, I needed to share it. So sometimes, you know, if you feel like a fraud, you really firstly, have to ask yourself, well, what is it that I am saying that I know?

And do I actually know it, because if you go out and by the way, you know, I’m at the point now in my life and my career where it’s, you know, I’m not, I don’t say to people, I can fix your life because no one can fix your life, but you, but what you can have is people help you along the way.

Some of them will not be paid professionals. Some of them will be your loved ones and unexpected people will come out of the woodwork and become some of the most helpful people you’ve ever known. In my case, I, my clients know that I am walking this path alongside them. I am not an expert that is on some kind of proverbial mountain top who has all the answers I am at my best.

When you ask me who I am at my best, I am, I’m a compatriot. I’m, I’m a trusted confidant, but I only know what I know. And I mean, not on a, on a deeper level. I only know what I know on a deep level, because I’ve walked this path. I’ve been walking this path for a long time,

and I’m still on the path. And I think that gives you power. When you find yourself in this imposter syndrome to really ask yourself, well, what am I saying that I am? Because to be in, to say that you’re an expert at life is, is kind of a funny thing. Of course, in miracles says you are not perfect,

or you would not be here, but your job is to become perfect, which is to say, to become fully aligned, to become, to align your personality with the deeper calling of your soul. And I’m still, as I said, I’m still trying to figure out who exactly that is, what that looks like when Jordan Bach, when I am myself,

when my personality is aligned with that soul essence, I was talking about. So when people realize that you, when they get the sense that you struggled to, you have your heartaches and your pains and your highs and your lows too. And you’re open about them without oversharing, from a place of, from a place of messy vulnerability, because it’s very hard to uplift from a place of weakness.

You have to place yourself in a place of strength in order to pull people up, which is sometimes lost today in this over vulnerable oversharing kind of confessional culture that we’ve had since the early nineties in America, you, that imposter syndrome begins to fall away. And when it really falls away is when you’ve made a choice to be truly helpful. That’s another prayer from a course in miracles.

I am only here to be truly helpful. I don’t have to worry about what to say or do because he, who sent me will tell me when I get there and when you will live. And when you work with that prayer in this field of helping and healing, your, the imposter syndrome begins to really fall away. Indeed. When people say to you,

that was truly helpful, you really helped me. Then you you’re in this space away from, from time where you’re not thinking about what you look like or what you sound like. You’re not thinking about how much you’re being paid. You’re not thinking about where this is going to lead you on your career path. You’re just in the moment with another soul.

And they’ve just said to you, this has been so helpful. This really helped me. Then you realize, whoa, it’s been weeks. It’s been months. Maybe it’s been years since I’ve thought to myself, I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing. I’m a fraud. You know, you’re not because, you know, as is written, you shall know them by the,

by the fruits of, by their fruits. Yeah. I fully agree with a lot of what you just said and I’m in that whole syndrome. It’s like, for me, I always think about it as working out muscles. You’re not going to like work out your arms once and then have giant biceps. It’s something that you’re going to have to do,

especially at the beginning to build it up and to get that stamp stamp, stamp, stamp in a Ooh, and then build it. And so that eventually, yeah, you can lift everything’s in your arms are bigger, but that was a process that was a journey. And then yes, for the rest of your life, it’s probably going to maintain that muscle memory.

So that imposter syndrome syndrome won’t be there as much. But at the beginning, it is a bit of a, you know, you have to walk the path, you have to go through the journey to get there. And there is an ever-changing there it’s never going to be Exactly. And I do. W when you said, you know, you have to go through you,

you have to go through those initial difficult moments. For me, it was at a certain point, a few years into starting. It was not just going through some difficult challenges in my work. It was actually walking through a fire of sorts is how actually right now, in this moment, this is in hindsight, what I would call it. It was a walking through a fire of sorts,

because I was, as you said, you know, one of the first gay men who was talking about these topics, unabashedly, you, you know, talking about spirituality, talk, using the word God, and on social media, like on tumbler and Twitter and Instagram and Facebook every day. And on Twitter, I would, I was constantly tweeting out little spirit,

you know, affirmations and, and up things that I true, I truly felt would be helpful to people that would uplift them. That would elevate them from a place of strength rather than sort of program them with the negativity that we see so often. And there was a certain group of people who were determined for whatever reason to make fun of me to mock me.

And it was primarily gay men. I was just hearing that so loudly, just because as a lot of the listeners know, in this group, we have the gay men’s brotherhood, and we’ve definitely had our fair share of slinging mud coming our way and friends kind of giving the side eye, or like, it’s that under toning of, oh, well,

good for you. And then they just stand at the sidelines to see how it goes. And it’s like, we it’s like Bernie brown says you have to be courageous enough to be in the arena. And if you’re in the arena with me and you’re going through it, I’m happy to sit and listen to your opinion. But if you’re not in this arena and you’re just slinging mud at me,

I don’t have time for your opinion. Yeah. Yeah. That was a, that was a very hard thing for me to, it was, it was easier for me to intellectually understand than it was for me to really, truly accept on, on a, on a truly vulnerable level. Because as a kid, you know, I came out when I was 12 years old to a father and a mother who supported me completely because they themselves were among the first people in their,

in their community, in a suburb of Boston, where they grew up to openly accept the gay kids in their town. And in fact, my parents to this day, their best friend is a gay kid who came into school at 15 years old, transferred to their school. And he was beat up and thrown into lockers by, by the bullies in the school.

And my dad was a really tough guy, but my dad was the only Jew in town. And so he knew what it was like to be singled out and to be ostracized, but he was tough. And so he beat the shit out of the bullies who gave Woody trouble. And my dad befriended Woody that day and what he has been my Gunckel in my life since I was,

he helped me when I was a baby. And growing up, I saw he and his partner kissing in our living room. He was, and still is a part of our family. And so my, my, my family, when I came out, I was like, oh yeah, I mean, yeah, nothing you can do about it. And of course,

like it’s a natural part of civilization. Gay people have been a part of civilization for time and Memorial. That has been my experience. And so I thought that going through life, I, that gay people were part of my tribe. So to speak that we had a natural understanding of each other, and that may be the greatest pushback socially I would receive might be from,

especially doing the work I do would be from Christians. And I’ve been attacked by the Westboro Baptist church. You know, the people who hold pick it, pick it, few funerals of gay people with signs, you know, burn in hell. I’ve been attacked by them, but that can not hold a candle to the vitriol. And the genuine hate I’ve experienced from members of my own population of gay people.

And they went at it continuously so that it was hard for me at a certain point to open Twitter, because I knew it would be a bunch of, you know, not, not stupid people, a lot of clever, clever people doing everything they could to mock me and make fun of me. One of them wrote a whole long take down piece of me screenshot in my website and little quotes I had,

and then my pricing structure of my coaching and painting me as a snake oil salesman or charlatan. And he clearly was very, very, very upset or triggered by something. But by me, maybe by the, by the way I talked or the way I looked or by what I was doing, and one day I was at Barnes and noble in union square,

and I was looking at books and I look up from a book and there is the guy who is like the ring leader of this New York coterie of like of mean gaze. And he looked at me and turned bright red. And in an, in an instant went from being this, this hard-ass mean gay, who took liberties to mock me and make fun of me for my nose.

And who does he think he is? And you’re holier than now. And you’re a charlatan, you’re a snake oil salesman. He said some libelous things, quite honestly like Jordan Bach talks about his coaching clients behind their backs, which was horrifying, horrifying thing to read. And so untrue. He went from that person, you know, keyboard warrior. When I looked him in the eye turn bright red.

And it was as if he, his tail, you know, went between his leg and he scurried away. He couldn’t face me in person and say the same thing, but this is all to say, especially to a gay brotherhood, that sometimes the people in your life, the community of people who you think are going to really be behind you when you start stepping out of line,

which is to say, especially in this increasingly secularized culture where our, our culture has been sanitized of all manner of spiritual context, that when you start speaking about these things, you are likely to be in some way, minimized or derive stud or mocked because you’re stepping out of line. You know, like people feel more comfortable when you’re doing what everyone else is doing.

And there’s a little apt metaphor here. Zebras have stripes, you think in nature, stripes that are so, you know, contrasting in nature would be not good in terms of hiding from predators, but the way zebras protect themselves is they congregate in these herds of zebras and all the stripes sort of mixed together from afar. So you can’t pick out an individual.

And so that makes it intimidating for predators. Predators. Don’t understand that predators want to isolate one individual and put their focus on one individual. And you can’t do that when everyone’s in a herd. But as soon as one zebra steps out of the herd, there’s, they’re contracting stripes against the Savannah become very clear. They become an individual and they’re much more likely to be attacked.

The same goes for all kinds of herd mentality. And I don’t even need to go into specifics to have everybody who’s listening, know what kind of herd mentality I’m talking about and how, and, and, and, and how it’s it’s seen in today’s culture. Herd mentality is a protective mechanism. And as soon as you step out of the herd and say,

you know what, I think a little bit differently about this, or I have some other idea about, about the way things can be done. You make yourself, you, you make yourself susceptible to attack and you have to, and that’s the fire that I was talking about at a certain point, if you’re really going to step out in your family,

in your community and say things that are different, you think of yourself as that zebra stepping away from the herd, you’re susceptible to be attacked. And there may come a moment where you have to walk through the fire, but having walked through it, I can say that I was surprised by how many people, again, people who I’d never expected would pop out of the woodwork and come to my aid,

come to my support. I was heartened by that. And it made me feel like, you know what, no matter what I have some of the kindest, warmest, smartest people who I admire, who support me, who respect me, who understand what I’m doing, and I can’t do it alone, but with their help, I can get through anything.,

it’s that strong, that building of that strong, you know, close personal community to be able to lean on and, and, you know, build those relationships so that when something gets said, whether it’s, you know, good or bad, you take it and you sit on it and you reflect on it, you go, okay, is this true?

Is this resonating for me? And you actually process it. Whereas these people from the outsides, these keyboard warriors, they aren’t part of that circle. So they don’t deserve to have that space being taken up in your mind of like, oh, do I re do I do this? And like, analyze those things that for me, I try and reserve that for my close,

close, supportive group of people, because I know that no matter what they say, they’re saying it from a place of loving compassion and true support. It’s not coming from these outside sources. So I want to ask a little bit more about how you handled and moved through that fire, how you handled to move through that kind of pushback and like being the zebra that stood out by yourself,

what was that experience like? And what did you do for maybe self care practices or, you know, self care routines or rituals that helped you move through that? You block people relentlessly on social media, just block them. And I’m not talking about, well, when they, okay. They set a comment that clearly was like tinge with like negativity and was just like a downer and not the kind of energy that I want in my space,

or, you know, or on my page, and then saying, okay, well maybe he didn’t mean it that way. So I’ll wait and see. I mean, block immediately, like as soon as you read something and you’re like, you know what? That’s, that feels really just straight up negative and completely out of alignment with the sacred feeling that I want in my life.

You go and you press, blah. I love that. Do it relentlessly. And it’s better to have someone. And it’s maybe happened twice to have someone reach out and say, Hey, you, I think you blocked me, but I didn’t mean that I really, you know, appreciate what you’re doing. And I’m sorry if it came across that way.

And then of course you click on block and you go, I’m so sorry. So sorry. I’m like happy I have you back, but that’s never happened. It’s happened twice. Yeah. It’s when you sense, people just don’t have, if people just have shitty energy and it’s one thing to be a downer, because we’ve all been down on some days,

it’s one thing to be like, thanks for those words. But I still feel depressed. You know, that that’s not a negative comment. That’s people expressing what they’re going through, but when people start projecting stuff onto you or start painting you in a light that is unloving, you can just relentlessly block. And at a certain point, all of those Twitter mean gays were getting together.

A friend told me and tweeting about like the blocked by Jordan club. They were like, it was an honor for them to be blocked by me. They felt like they, this is their thinking. It’s like, what are you doing with your days? Seriously? What are you doing with your days to be sitting around? And then you go to their Twitter accounts and they have like 300,000 tweets.

So they sit on two at this point. I don’t know, this is years ago. So I don’t know if people are still doing that, but they’re sitting around on Twitter all day, cheering about being blocked by, by people who are, as you said, Calen in the arena, like actually doing work and putting themselves out there. And at a certain point,

you just go, okay, just block delete. And I don’t. Now, if I, and I rarely get that now, because I think you attract or not, you attract. But I do think it’s a bit of a, a test. How much shit are you willing to take? And the universe w we’ll we’ll sort of gauge how much shit you’re willing to take.

And at that stage of my career, I was willing to entertain people’s mad ideas about who I was. I was willing to like, negotiate with them about who I was, and then it sh and then over time it shifted to me blocking, but first, you know, reading what they said and then thinking about it and then blocking them and still thinking about it as I went to sleep at night,

and now I don’t get those comments often, if at all, out of maybe 500 comments the other day, I got two comments that were just clearly unhinged by which, I mean, people are very unhappy right now, understandably, but not all of us are projecting that frustration and anger on to other people. We’re recognizing that it is our own, but let’s say two people out of 500 people who chose to comment wrote something.

And as soon as I read the first few words that are like, I can just scan the comment and just see the energy and you click block. I love that. Yeah. And it’s like, I don’t care if you’ve followed me for 10 years, not on my watch. Just, just get lost. So Would you say that this is a practice and healthy boundaries?

Oh yeah. And it’s energetic boundaries. It’s the energy you’re willing to accept into your life. And of course, this is a constant, this is it. That is constantly for me to constantly being renegotiated with yourself because some people come into your life and you’re like, you know what? For example, the other day I met someone who this very beautiful person,

deeply spiritual, fascinating, charismatic person, who I was very compel. You know, I was very interested by them. And then it, sometimes it takes a day or two to like, process a conversation. Do you know what I mean? Yes, fully. And a couple of days later, I was sitting around a and I was like, that’s not the energy that I need in my life because they were,

they had a law going on and that’s, this is a specific example to my specific circumstance in my life right now. But it’s mean, this is to say that it’s still something that’s constantly being renegotiated for me. What kind of energy do I want to allow into my life? And, and that’s not to say that, you know, dark things don’t happen to people around me and to me too,

all the time, it’s to say that like, I’m going to have good energy, energy hygiene. I’m not just going to let people into my life and let them become part of my life as a, say, a new friend. If I don’t feel that if I, if I, if I feel like their energy could somehow drain my life force.

And so we said that before. And so I just want to very quickly sort of define what that means. When something drains your life force, be it a person, a relationship, a job. It’s not a sense of exhaustion. Like, wow, I had a full day’s work and I need to go home and pass out because that was like mentally taxing.

It’s not, wow. This relationship we are putting in so much work and it’s not easy. It’s not that draining you. When something drains you of your life force, you really begin to question what you’re doing with your life. You ask yourself, where is this going? And it sounds like that too. Where is this going? It’s this feeling of like this complete lack of ease and unfolding and a sense that you’re grinding,

grinding, grinding, and sometimes you have physical symptoms. Like you wake up after sleeping eight hours and you feel like you haven’t slept, or your hair starts falling out more quickly than usual. That for me is something that happens when I read it. When I have to stop and realize something is draining you of your life force you, or what in Kundalini yoga science for what,

for what it’s worth, which I think is a lot of, they call your OGs, your life force and S and sometimes it takes you a minute, especially those of us who are compassionate and generous of spirit and giving, there comes a moment when you have to pause and say, is this draining me of my life force? Do I feel spiritually depleted?

Like I have no more to give, or like, because I’m giving so much at this job or in this relationship, I’ve lost sight of my own pleasure within it. I, So, yeah. Yeah. Just thinking, thinking that as a prompt to yourself can be very helpful. Yeah. I definitely fully agree in regards to the healthy boundaries. And,

and, you know, is this adding, or is this taking away and the energy there, I usually bring it back to core values and living in alignment with your core values, you kind of have this real self that, you know, your, your everyday self. And then you have your ideal self, which is where your, you know, top 10 core values live.

And the more in alignment that your everyday life real self can live within that ideal self, the more you’re going to be aligned. And you’re going to feel energized and ready to go, and you’re going to have that energy, but it does come down to like, you know, figuring out who adds to that energy. And who’s in alignment with those core values.

And who’s not in alignment, or what’s not in alignment with those core values. And the more you can do that, the more you can live, you know, that more energized, vibrant life. And, and I agree with you. Sometimes there’s people that are magical, but you’re like, you’re magical, but I can only handle you in small little doses,

because as much as you add value in this moment, it, I still feel drained afterwards. Cause it’s it’s too much. Yeah. And that’s discernment that we were talking about. It’s a level of discernment because again, compassion without discernment is sloppy and can sometimes not only be on helpful, but can be dangerous. You know, if every person who needed money on the planet came up to you and said,

give me a dollar. And you out of compassion said, sure, here’s the balance. You would be left penniless and broke. And again, that speaks to this idea that you can’t uplift from a place of weakness. You can only uplift from a place of strength. You can’t make people any less poor by making yourself for, and that is true spiritually speaking as well.

And so that’s the ener energy hygiene and the self care we’re talking about. How do we place ourselves and allow ourselves to remain in a place of strength and elevation so that we can actually be contributors to our families, to our friends and to our communities. Sometimes discernment will lead you. I mean, it’s kind of like people say they want the truth,

but boy, they, the truth, the truth can be devastating. And in many cases, the truth can lead you to realize that most, if not all of the people who you have surrounding you are not, are not placing you in a position of strength. They’re keeping you in a position of weakness for whatever for, and they’re varied. You know,

there are myriad reasons why that might be, but it can be devastating. And so it’s easy to say, you know, get rid of people who are like low energy so that you can like be happy, but really that process is devastating. It is another fire you have to walk through in life. It can mean leaving a long-term relationship, which I don’t always suggest right away.

Sometimes it’s, it’s, it’s, it needs to be a very carefully thought out process, especially if you’re married or have children because of the disillusion of, of a marriage for children between the ages of say six and nine is psychologically devastating in most cases for the children. And so it’s not as easy as reading an Instagram quote that says, you know,

get rid of people that, that, that take you, that you know, that, that don’t lift you up. And it’s like, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna dissolve my marriage. Take my kids who are seven years old and who, who are in, in that stage of development, where they desperately need stability. It’s it’s not always a good idea in some cases,

yes, you do have to up and leave, but it’s very individual, but having this level of discernment where you realize things aren’t necessarily good for you, that discernment also requires thoughtful, thoughtful, planning, and consideration of, of, of many variables. Not just that you aren’t being uplifted. If that makes sense. Oh, very much. And I resonate that on a very deep level because my parents went through a very messy separation from the ages of like six to like 14.

So, oh yeah. So like, that’s been a lot of, a lot of stuff that I’ve unpacked over the process of my life and things that I, I journey through. And I agree it can’t just be like, oh, dunk people who aren’t, you know, quote unquote, energetically lifting you up. There does have to be that discernment of like,

okay, well, what are they adding? What are they taking away? Can this be a conversation? Have I done my due diligence on voicing my needs and my thoughts And like, have I Told them how I want them to interact with me? You, I am a firm believer that you teach people how to treat you. And if you don’t take the time to first get to know yourself and what your actual needs are and who you are as a person,

you know, that’s the first work then the secondary work is don’t just drop everybody. You’ll have to look around and go, okay, I need to give you the opportunity first to either come and meet me where I am now as a person who’s kind of changed and evolved, or is this a time where, you know, we’re gonna, you know,

go our separate ways, so to speak, but like that’s a process and a journey and it shouldn’t just be like, oh, I’m just dropping you because you’re in my path. There has to be that kind of thought process and give that opportunity for them to maybe make their own decision to come with you and go, you know what? I do need to do some shifting.

Yeah. There are soul too. I mean, I can, I can almost just feel someone listening right now who has maybe a friend who clearly doesn’t uplift them and sometimes sabotages them. I can, I can almost just sense that someone who’s listening is experiencing that and is saying, okay, I have to cut them out of my life, to which I respond.

The impulse is absolutely on point. The impulse is that this person is indeed not adding anything to your life and is keeping you in a place of weakness rather than doing, they’re doing what they should be doing as friends, we should all be doing for each other, as friends, which is lifting each other up to our place of strength, reminding each other of our strength and of our gifts and how,

and, and, and, and the contribution that we make. Because it’s easy to forget when you’re in it, when you’re living the life as a soul, that’s what our friends are here for. So if our friends are keeping us down, what you just said, Callan is absolutely on point, which is you. You have to give people an opportunity to,

to self-correct. And I personally am a firm believer in the three strike rule, but those three strikes require direct and clear communication about what it is that is upsetting you. What behavior of theirs upsets you. It requires a conversation about it, clear, direct, and non-judgemental. So I would say if you’re not able to have a non-judgemental conversation with this friend who sabotaging you or who isn’t,

you know, who isn’t living up to their responsibility to uplift you, if you’re not able to be nonjudgmental and clear and direct with them, you’ve got some stuff you need to think about as well. You actually may be contributing to this dynamic, and you’re likely replicate this dynamic and future friendships and relationships. If you don’t clear it up now. Oh yeah.

It takes two to tango. And, and I think of this all as like the crabs in the bucket kind of syndrome, like everybody’s, you know, kind of starts off as the crabs in the bucket. And then those of us who kind of maybe get out of the bucket and we see a different way of doing things, or we are a little bit more further on our adventures.

We have the opportunity to either, you know, jump and leave or to turn back and try and help pull others out and show them. And I, I personally take it upon myself to be that person. That’s why I do this work. I’m sure that’s why you do this work as well, to bring people along further, to, you know,

bring them up to where you are so that they can turn around and do the same to other people in their lives. And we all help each other move forward. Yeah. I have to say for me personally, and this is not for everybody in every circumstance, I really mean I say that because I’ve made it then in some circumstances, it, it,

it’s absolutely right for someone, but for me, I stopped trying to do for my friends, what I do for my clients. Oh yeah. No, they didn’t mean it in that sense, Right? Yeah. I mean, I meant, I meant being kind of like by being the light, your friends can either choose to kind of like, well,

depending on what the situation is, but like, by being the light, your coaching is one thing. That’s specifically one thing with an individual, but by being the light and kind of just being yourself and showing people who you are and what you’re doing, where you’re going, they can then choose to either come with you and kind of progress on that.

Or it’s like a natural splitting of like your energy doesn’t vibe. And so it’s not like anything bad happens. It’s just the text slowdown or the messaging slows down. And like, you’re not as involved as you used to be. Exactly. Yeah, definitely. This has been such a magical conversation. There’s one more thing I want to touch on. We have a couple more minutes.

So I want to go back to this oversharing and vulnerability, because I think that’s a really important when you touched upon, especially in the day and age of social media, and Bernay brown talks about vulnerability and not oversharing for the sake of oversharing and being vulnerable for the sake of being vulnerable and being like, oh, I’m going to be so vulnerable and it’s going to be amazing.

And it’s like, no, that’s just, you know, spewing everywhere. One of my mentors that I love is Amy Porterfield and she uses the thought process of like, it’s great to be vulnerable and to share after you’ve gone through the mess and you’ve come out the other side. And I agree for myself as well. I believe that once I’ve gone through something and I’ve done the messy bits and I’ve seen how it can look from the beginning,

middle and end, and now I have answers or have ways to provide that help. That’s when I allow the vulnerability to come out, because I’m no longer sharing from that messy space of like, I don’t know what’s happening, but I’m just going forward. So what’s take on that. My take on that is simply that particularly if you’re someone who is in,

who’s chosen to shoulder the responsibility of making yourself available for the work of grace in the lives of other people, which is to say you’ve chosen a helping and healing profession, and you’re a professional, you really have to be careful about when and how you’re making the decision to share personal stories. Because as we’ve already spoken about callin you, it’s very difficult,

almost impossible to genuinely uplift on a spiritual level, from a place of weakness. You need that elevation in order to uplift, you need that elevation. You need that strength. I mean, think of a person reaching down to lift someone up, you know, you get a monkey grip on their arm and you’re lifting them up from the dock or on the ladder or whatever it is.

You, you literally need elevation and you need strength. And you’re really not helping. If you’re also hanging off the ledge, swinging and saying, I’m hanging off the ledge and I’m swinging. And wow, this is really hard. If, because if you’ve chosen to help or heal you, your purpose is to give some sense of reassurance, grace power.

You can impart upon them a sense of their own power. And you can do that almost seamlessly. When you, when you have a bird’s eye view of the problem, the personal issue that you’re talking about, I know that, you know, I went through a very difficult breakup years ago and wrote about it on my blog. And I held back from sharing about it because of what we’re talking about,

because I felt like, you know what? I have this desire to share about it because I know so many other people are going through or have gone through something like this and are struggling to make sense of it. And I held back until I got to the point where I felt like, you know what, I’m really, I’m not fully through it.

I still feel, you know, a sense of grief and loss, but I have a bird’s eye view of it, and I can see what the pitfalls were and I can see what I could have done differently. I can also see the beauty in it that I couldn’t when I was in it. And when I got to that point and it’s, and it’s so subjective when you feel you’re at that point.

But when I got to that point, I sat down to finally write about it. And it was my most successful blog ever. And I still get people writing to me talking about how I spoke about breakups and how it helped them get through their own. And I think I was only able to do that because I got to that place of elevation and strength.

We are, we have this culture and it’s a confessional culture. And it started with, I would say, you know, early nineties talk shows where people were coming on and sharing their deepest, darkest secrets, and that this is in America. But now that we live in a more global culture in part, because of social media, we’ve seen it spread beyond the boundaries of America,

but it’s a peculiarly American thing to want to go into the public square and cry about our problems out loud. My British friends literally don’t understand why Americans do this. Oh, I hear that. I used to live in London. So like, I get it, My British friends, you know, one night at dinner, I’m like, I meet a new person and we’re sitting at the corner of the table.

And like within 30 minutes, you know what the woman who I’m talking to is like crying about her child childhood abuse. And I’m like holding her head and they’re like, you guys, can you rejoin the conversation, please? This is so like, this is so American. Yeah. Did you all do this? I mean, we don’t understand And shove all your emotions down,

like what are you doing? Right, right, right. But I love it though. You know, I love that about, about Americans. I love that we wear our hearts on our sleeve. Yes. We’re loud, but we are. We’re generally, I mean, when you ask Europeans what they, what their first impression of Americans were, it is that we’re loud,

but we’re very friendly. And I love that. I love that about Americans. I would say that it started in the early nineties during this confessional talk show format, which, you know, Oprah Winfrey herself has expressed regret that in many, many episodes that she did, she felt that she and her producers got people to talk too early and become too vulnerable too quickly about situations in their lives that were still unfolding.

So she herself regret about, about airing vulnerability to too much too soon. So I think that’s interesting because she herself is really pioneered that format of the confessional American talk show. And so that’s spilled out, you know, onto social media in the early 2010s where people found that they could get sort of empathy points. You could say for sharing difficulties. And,

and you really have to ask, you know, sometimes who knows it’s again, this is all personal. There is no rule book for living a life and expressing who you are. You do it the way you do it. I’m, I’m not a judge. You do it the way that feels good to you. I hope that people listening, maybe now have something else to think about before they post something else to check in with themselves about like,

am I really ready to share this? And, and as ever, what is my intention in sharing is my intention to share a sense of reassurance and grace and hope and upliftment for other people is my goal to be truly helpful. And this does this, this is regardless of what profession you have, you can be an accountant or could work in retail.

It it’s, it’s a beautiful goal to have, of course in miracles says for each of us, our only purpose here is to be truly helpful. And that goes for social media. And as much as it goes for any in-person interactions, we have, you know, how can we be truly helpful? And so when we post something and we’re about to confess something about our messy lives and believe me,

everybody’s life is messy. And I mean, everybody I’ve had, I’ve had the, I’ve had the very, I’ve had the gift of, of the experience of meeting some of the most famous successful people. And when you really get to know them, it has been actually heartening for me to realize, and it’s been relieving for me to realize that they all have messy lives too.

And I’m talking about the people who seem the most together. Everybody has some messiness and some darkness and stuff in their lives. And so all of us are special, but none of us are special, special. And before you post ask yourself, what is my intention in posting? Is it to get something or to give something, is my intention in posting this personal story to get empathy,

or to make myself seem adorable maladjusted, or is my intention to actually provide some sense of elevation and uplift. And by the way, that elevation doesn’t have to be deep spiritual wisdom. Sometimes it can be your own unique sense of humor. I have some amazing comedian friends who post things that like, I would never think of those things because my audience would think I was crazy because it’s so cutting and biting the humor.

But guess what? I sometimes am scrolling and belly laughing at what they’ve written, because it’s such a funny critique of modern culture. And guess what that’s elevating. So if you’re funny, if you’re humorous, if you have an amazing selfie that you think is just so sexy, post that post your favorite music post, what makes you happy and always ask yourself is my intention to like,

get something or is it to like give something because even sometimes a selfie when you sometimes, you know, you have those moments where you look at yourself and you’re like in a selfie and this goes for everybody, okay. Sometimes you look at yourself and you’re like, I like the way I look here. Like, I like the way I like the way my face is like,

I like the way I’m holding my face. It’s so true to me. Like this photo looks like me. I want to share that. I want it because that’s me giving myself kind of. So in that sense, it’s not all about the deep spiritual content and never posting about yourself because that would be egotistical. No, share your joy, share your pleasure,

share what makes you happy and try and make sure that before you post and before you create an express that you are doing. So from a place of elevation and strength and joy, and I think you’re, you can transform your social media. You can transform the way that you comment on the internet and in doing so, you can transform the, the kind of people that gravitate toward you.

Because so many of the people I spoke about earlier as comprising the support group, kind of the hat around me were people I hadn’t met in person. In fact, I’ve known someone on the internet now for maybe six or seven years, we have talked on the phone. We’ve sent countless voice notes back and forth. We’ve DMD and texted for six years.

And we just met last week when we met, when we met, we just hugged and then sat down and got to talking like we usually do. It was as if we, and indeed we had, we had known each other for this whole time. So it’s totally possible to find a support group and to magnetize people through your own unique sense of expression of your soul’s essence,

it’s totally possible. And it’s necessary to attract and magnetize the people towards you, who you need in your life. And they don’t have to be next door. You don’t need to go on a mission to find someone who lives in your neighborhood so that you can go to coffee. It’s totally possible to feel uplifted and held by a community of people who you’ve never met.

Oh, a hundred percent because I mean, Matt, who is part of the leaders of the gay men’s brotherhood, myself and Michael, we had never met before we started the group. Like we had all met like online and I had met Matt over. I saw one of his videos, like connected with him. I had him on a podcast and like,

we’ve never actually met physically in person, Matt and myself and Michael and Matt have never met in person. I’ve met Michael because he lives here in Toronto. But even still it’s been the pandemic. So we’ve only met once or twice, you know, when the lockdown kind of loosened up a little bit, but you can find those amazing supportive communities and people anywhere,

as long as you, you know, are really focusing on that, you know, your vibe attracts your tribe kind of energy. Sure. Listen to town. We didn’t get to talking about adjusting to change, which I really want to talk about it. You know, Here’s the thing I’m wondering. You may have something to go to, but if you want it to split this podcast in two,

I could go for another. I could go until the top of the hour. I would absolutely love to do that. But in speaking of the gay men’s brotherhood, we have our meeting coming up after this. I would, but let’s schedule another one of these. Cause I think we, Yeah, let’s do that because I really do think it’s. So what we talked about of course is very important,

but I feel like it’s secondary to talking about adjusting to change, which I know right now is, I mean, people are not psychologically. People are not at their psychological best right now because it is a very strange, strange world that we’re living in. And I, what I know, what I know is that many of the most clever, the cleverest smartest really most spiritually astute people I know are suffering from one or many sort of psychological or spiritual problems right now.

And what I would hope to do in our next conversation is talk about how it’s very normal to feel that way. And Yes, you know what I’m saying? Cause people are feeling really alone and they’re feeling like something is wrong with them. And indeed that’s not the case. It’s, it’s, it’s, they’re actually, it’s a very normal response to what’s going on and to the lack of physical intimacy and a result of the lack of social interaction and the,

and the increased screen time and disrupted sleep. I mean, we’re, we’re, we’re really going through a psychological crisis that needs to be addressed. And I think you and I could, could do that well in a conversation I would love to do that. I actually just covered this. We do motivational Mondays in our group and my video was all about it’s okay to feel like crap.

Like this is something we’ve never experienced in our lifetime before. And like your body and your brain and everything is going through changes that we’ve not experienced. And it’s okay if you need to lay in bed and feel like shit for a little while, lay in bed and feel like shit. And knowing that it’s a roller coaster, it’s a journey life. Is this ever,

ever expanding journey? And I call it the school of life like you were talking about earlier, we’re all just doing our stuff. And like you said, everybody’s messy. Bernie brown always says people, people, people, we’re all just people. It’s very true. Well, Jordan, this has been such a beautiful enlightening conversation. I, I love when you speak,

I’ve followed you for many, many years. I’m grateful to have these opportunities to speak with you and to bring your voice to not only our group, but everybody else who’s listening to this. Where can people find you? If they want to know more information about you, where are you most active online? These days, You can find me on Instagram at Jordan Bach B a C H,

and you can go to my website, which is temporarily down. But when you go to the Bach book.com, you can sign up for my email newsletter. I don’t send them out. Often. I only send out emails when I actually have something to say, I don’t spend people. I try and write my emails in the way I like to receive them.

Which is, do you actually have something to say, and is it going to help me? Is it interesting? So if you sign up on email, there, you’ll get my emails when I send them out. And I think that they, I intend for them to be truly helpful. Those two places you can find me. And I really hope that the people who have felt like they can understand my energy and match with me do actually become,

become part of, of this community that you and I are, are building of, of gay people who are coming together as we have all the way back through ancient times to talk about the things that really matter in culture and society, w w that has almost been our divine assignment throughout civilization is to, is to really talk about the things that matter and try not,

well, of course, it’s so much fun to talk about the, the things that don’t technically really matter that much kind of the superfluous things of life. I mean, what would a good dinner conversation be without talking about? Well, I mean, Kim Kardashians really smart. I think she’ll get through this. You know What queen went home this week,

Paul who a RuPaul who by the way, is one of us. Paul is really one of us. I mean, RuPaul is one of the most spiritual people I’ve ever met. She, he really is a, he really is a deep, deep, deep, sensitive little boy who has grown up using his adult body and his adult voice with a sense of power that is unparalleled.

And so he really is a model. I know for so many of us, but I hope that as, as we continue to have these conversations and really just exchange energy with each other and exchange ideas with each other, that we build this impenetrable shield around ourselves, using the herd mentality to our advantage in the noblest sense that when we come together with good ideas,

when we come together with ideas that are rooted in love, rather than fear and judgment, we can w we can create something really magical. I, I believe that. And I’m right there with you. We fully believe, especially at the gay men’s brotherhood. That’s exactly what we’re doing so well, thank you so much for being on today’s show. It was,

it was magical. We’ll have you again, and I just want to say everybody who’s listening. If you’re listening to a podcast version on apple, just give us a five-star rating, share it with your friends. Everybody you think might get something from this. If you’re watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and give us a thumbs up and anywhere else that you’re listening or watching,

make sure you spread it around because the more people know about us, the more we can share and build this amazing community that we’re building. So thank you again for being on today’s show. Jordan have the most magical day ever. Peace love rainbows, everybody ciao.