About Today’s Show
Relationships! Always such a hot topic in the gay community (and in all communities really). In today’s episode, Calan Breckon invites guest speaker, writer and Life Coach Jordan Bach back for a chat about gays and relationships.
Covering things like resentment after a rejection, conscious uncoupling, clearness is kindness, confidently asking someone out and what “pretty privilege” is and how it affects us are just a few of the topics that came up in today’s chat.
– Connect with us –
Well, hello. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of gay men going deeper. today I’m your host Calan Breckon and we have on the show again, the amazing Jordan Bach. If you don’t know who Jordan is, he’s a life coach, a motivational speaker and a writer, and he has been on the show before. He was amazing.
So I’m happy to have him back again. Welcome back, Jordan. How are you doing today?
Joke That that is my sense of humor. It’s very, it’s either very, very dark humor or just dad jokes. And I find them funny and I’m the type type of annoying person that laughs at my own jokes. That’s amazing. All right. Well,
how you doing? Introduce yourself. Say had, and the people. Hello? Hello? Hello. I’m Jordan Bach. I’ve known Calan. We’ve known each other for, for how long? Oh geez. I think I first interviewed you in. I was living in New York. It was in 2013? Yeah, that sounds about right.
So we’ve known each other for a while now. And you know, when I first started out on the internet, I started, I started my blog called the Bach book and I was talking at the time. Now I speak to everybody, if all, you know, every kind of human being, but back then I was speaking exclusively to and about gay men.
And so that’s how I started building my, my audience and that at the time felt just very necessary. And that was that’s like 11 years ago. Now it felt necessary to talk to gay men in a way that spoke to the, to the deeper truths about who we are. And of course we’re all individuals and we all have very unique life experiences,
but I felt that there was lacking a well, I’ll say this to be quite honest. I read, excuse me. I read a book by Larry Kramer called the tragedy of today’s gaze and it’s a speech he gave. I finished that within a couple hours, one night laying in bed in New York. And at the time I was figuring out, you know,
what should I be doing with my life? I just graduated college. I had no idea what kind of work I should do. And w w what led me to that book was, was that prayer, you know, tell me what I should do with my life. I know I want to use my voice in some capacity, but I don’t know what for,
and I read that book, the tragedy of today’s gaze and in it, he really spoke in a kind of, let’s just say brusque way, very straightforward way about his beliefs. And I don’t share all of his beliefs, but one of his beliefs was that gay men need to start taking responsibility for their lives. And when I looked around at that time in 2010,
I felt like all of the gay media that was available, at least to me, was speaking to the lowest common denominator of our shared experiences, gay men. And as I started to talk about it, and I created a blog and started writing about gay gay issues and gay relationships and gay romance and gay fun, and started sharing my own personal life experience with all of those things,
I very quickly started to accumulate an audience of amazingly heart-centered insightful, sweet, sensitive, gay men who looked at things more similarly. And really that that’s how I got started. Yeah. And so I know today we wanted to chat a bit about relationships, whether they be romantic or platonic with other gay men. And so join to do that. Oh yeah,
definitely. I love this topic because I think times have changed so drastically since I was in school. I remember I wasn’t out in high school and there was one out kid and I despised him. Not because he was the outcome, but because he was annoying as fuck. And so I didn’t come out because I didn’t want to be like roped up in associated with him.
Yeah. And, but then since coming out, I had gone back to my high school a number of years ago when I started a nonprofit and help them out, like build their LGBTQ, like gay, straight Alliance. And so I came in as a leader to kind of help them build that up. And there was so many gay kids and it was like maybe for like four years later,
three, four years later. And so I was like, holy crap. It times changed so quickly between when I was in high school, I graduated 2005 til when I went back maybe a couple of years later. And I was like, okay, things are very different. And now it’s been, I don’t want to say, hold on. It’s been,
but it’s been a number of years. I think I’ve definitely passed my 15 year, but it’s just so different now. And also like looking at all the stats on how the younger generation identifies just sexually, like so many more of them identify as pansexual or just fluid. And I think that that’s kind of the direction a lot of the world is going.
We kind of got to this like equilibrium space where it’s just like a balance, but this, I think pertains to the gay community and the end gay men as, as how we’ve developed and like kind of matured over the years as a society. And back in the day, you know, when you came out, all of a sudden your life changed drastically and,
you know, you had to hide and you had to pretend that you weren’t who you were, unless you were with your friends. And then that led to like, oh, well, we can’t really have relationships. Or they look very different than the heteronormative. And then fast forward, you know, you can go out, you can hold hands in public.
And these things started to change, but we’re still in such a close proximity to the generation that couldn’t do that when they started to the new generation that is doing it, like it’s like, you know, nothing and the in-between. And so in regards to relationships, we have such a spectrum of people’s experiences from when they started to now. And it’s so interesting to see our community evolve and grow to that place where it’s like,
now it’s just, it is becoming the normal, but we had to go through those growing pains in order to get there and we’re still going through them. And so anytime we bring up this topic in our community, it is always just such a talked about topic because, you know, that’s kind of, you know, we’re social beings, we’re social creatures that we want to connect.
We want to find that that space where we can connect. And from my personal experience, I find that a lot of men, especially gay men get lost in the confusion between platonic relationships and romantic relationships, because they’ll see somebody that they find sexually attractive and they’ll think, oh, I want to be with that person. And then they find out they’re a nice person.
They’re kind, but the other person doesn’t reciprocate the attraction. And then it just becomes this a bit of a mess. And so there, you know, there needs to be a little bit more help navigating that, you know, the difference between platonic relationships and romantic relationships and that yes, you can have both in one person, but you could also have those things separated.
And it’s not all just about sex and having a good time. That’s such a common thing in, in, in the gay population. So it’s, but I’ve never actually really heard, heard it out the way you just said it. It’s, it’s so true. And it’s so common. Here’s what, here’s what I think when that happens. Let’s say you like someone and then the it’s not reciprocated.
What can sometimes happen within you is that you feel resentful toward the person. And I think that’s one of the most dangerous points of this particular relationship dynamic is that when you begin feeling resentful towards someone for not reciprocating, you know, admir admiration or, or sexual attraction, when you feel resentful toward another person, then you really do start getting into the thick of things.
That’s a very thorny, thorny, thorny world of one’s own making one that’s filled with resentment. And I word projection of your anger, your frustration, or just your general dissatisfaction with the way your life is going. So I’ve, I’ve always talked about, and I’ve always practiced in my own life, really closely monitoring any resentments. I feel percolating because they’re very,
it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s one of the most dangerous emotions. Resentment can move to cruelty quicker than we all know, but history bears that out. And so you want to get in, in the very beginning, when you start feeling the resentment and in a situation like an unreciprocated romance, right? You want to pull in and ask yourself if you want other people to respect your choices and your boundaries.
And the answer to that is of course, yes. When I say no to something, I would like other people to respect my no, and we must in the same vein respect, other people’s knows. They know what’s best for them. And also every time you get a no, that could be leading you toward the place and the time in your life,
where you get that big resounding yet. And had you received a no from someone who, or had you received a yes from someone who wasn’t right for you, that would lead you down a path you’re not supposed to be on. So there, there is a kind of, I think what’s the word, like a playfulness with which you can go out into the world and experience human relationships.
Sometimes the very person who you want to like you, who then you find out said something horrible. You, it helps you define what your boundaries are, what you’re willing to accept and what you’re not willing to accept. And you have to trust in the universe to guide you to the exact right constellation of people. And those people will say yes, whether as friends,
as family members, as lovers, those people will say, yes, you won’t have to fight and strain. And so much of our experience as gay men is a sense that we have had our struggles and there’s beauty that comes from having struggled. There are also problems that flow from living in a mindset of constantly feeling like everything has to be a struggle.
Certainly if you go on a date with someone and you think you’re going to have to convince them to like you, it’s going to be a very awkward date and the person may very well say you’re, you’re cute. You’re cool to just, I don’t think our energies are vibing right now. And that’s why so much of the work that we do in relationships in regards to other people is actually the work we’re doing on ourselves to relinquish our resentment and become people who trust and have faith in the universe and in other people.
Yes. Yes. I fully vibe on that. I’m always looking around and any time I, you know, there’s a potential person and you know, it wasn’t quite a right fit. Like the connection. Wasn’t exactly right. I mean, nothing’s ever going to be perfect. Relationships are work, and we have to recognize that, that, you know,
once you choose somebody that there will be work involved, but if it’s not right, I always look at it and go, okay, it’s not quite right, but it’s almost their universe. Like you got closer this time. And every time I meet somebody or, you know, have been dating somebody, they’ve gotten me that much closer to that one.
Who’s going to be like the good fit, like that puzzle piece that slips in. And it’s like, cool. It’s not a perfect match because there’s always going to be work to be done. But all this stuff matches up to the point where like, everything that I feel like for the longterm is going to work out. It’s great. But the universe,
every time you go through that, you tell the universe, cool, you got even closer this time. And the next one could be that perfect. Yes. Where it’s like, yes, everything is a go on this one. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And one thing I’ve, I’ve always thought, is that just because of relationship and doesn’t mean that it has to end badly.
Yes. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, no, just that I, that’s another sort of unconscious belief. I think a lot of people have. And so it’s their knee jerk reaction when they are in the midst of a breakup or a relationship ending to start feeling those feelings of anger and resentment. And I want to take care of myself and I want to be the,
the brightest light that I can be and resentment and anger directed at other people, cloud my vision and dim my light. So like I said, it’s not that, you know, I don’t have feelings of resentment or anger or frustration sometimes it’s that I try and be very, I try and make my comeback rate very high, that, okay. I felt it.
But as time goes on, I’m much more easily forgiving. And I want to move on when it comes to break up or relationship ending. I think it’s possible to acknowledge that you are not meant to be in the same relationship configuration with that person, but that you can still maintain thoughts of love toward them. And I think that’s why some of my past relationships have become some of my,
to this day. I’m closest friends because I just, I don’t care how they feel about it. I just blow past. And I go straight to being friendly and checking in. And, but barring situations where someone has done something, you know, has, has really betrayed you. Why not be friends? And sometimes it takes six months or a year or two years to start talking again.
But if we, in, in my view, if we had such a strong connection in the past, and we shared so many thoughts of love toward each other, I’ve always felt kind of French in that regard. Like I want my current partner to know my ex’s at least some of them, But I think we can, like, I want, I want the people with whom I’ve shared my life in a really deep way to,
to be at my wedding. Like I, I don’t, I personally, and some people may not feel this way. I know they won’t. That’s okay. That’s just the way I run my life. I think this life is actually so sure. And I’m reminded of that every day, really, especially in the past year, how this life is so short and we can’t waste it on feeling anger and resentful and sitting up at night or driving around the car and thinking about what someone did to us or those thoughts that really lead you to a darker place.
And so that’s why the inner work that I’m talking about that is required of you in order to really get to a place where you can let go of your resentment, forgive people. And as a course in miracles, which is the metaphysical text I study and teach a course in miracles, says forgiveness is, is, is really giving up the past and giving up the feeling that you can change the past so that it won’t hurt you anymore.
You can’t the past happened. It is over the only completely true thought you can have about the past or any past situation is that it is not here now. And that’s one little tool. Granted, it’s an intellectual proposition, but it’s a tool that you can use to help you move on. Remind yourself the past is not here. And I have no power to change the past so that it won’t hurt me.
It already happened. I fully agree. I totally resonate on that Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep topic. Yeah. I’m friends with all my ex is still, I don’t th I don’t have any Xs that I’m not friends with. I mean, I did have to take that grieving. I call it a grieving period of like, of a relationship that looks differently than what you thought it was going to look like.
Cause I don’t think it’s a death of something. I think it’s just kind of a, an evolution and a growth part of it. And so take that time to grieve. And sometimes it might take longer. Sometimes it might take less time, but I’m still very friendly with all my exes. I just talked to one, you know, last week and,
and had a bit of a chat and, you know, Hey, how’s it going? I’m not, maybe not necessarily best friends with some of them, but like still like walking down the street would be like, oh my God, like, Hey, how’s it going? And I loved what you were talking about in resentment. I was thinking about this.
I think it’s this monk quote where holding on to like anger and resentment is like holding onto an Ember, like a fiery hot Ember in hopes of throwing it at the person that you’re angry at all that it does is that it hurts you. And that’s what you’re doing when you’re sitting on this energy of like hoping to change the past and like being angry about it.
You’re only hurting yourself. You’re not hurting anybody else. What do you think for was the best thing in your, in your grieving process of past relationships? Oh, that’s a good question. I think giving myself the permission to take time and to take space and doing what I needed to with my second ex, when I was over in the middle east,
he was moving back to the U S so it was going to be long distance. And, and I felt that the relationship was going to come to an end. And I knew he wasn’t going to end the relationship because he couldn’t, he didn’t have the language, he didn’t have the capacity to do it. So I ended the relationship knowing that that was going to happen a month before he physically left.
So that it’s like, let’s take our time. Let’s take some space now, because right now I’m in the upset, angry about this relationship, not continuing space. And so I needed a month to like, kind of like breathe through it, mourn it, you know, sit on, sit on the couch, watch, watch Netflix, eat ice cream,
be a bit sad. And so that I could come back at it with those fresh eyes of like returning to love, returning to gratitude, returning to like compassion and being like, he’s just another human being. We’re all just people doing the best we can with what we got. And then I could really say goodbye in a very loving space. And that’s who I just spoke to the other day.
And, you know, he’s a beautiful person, our energies weren’t just meant to be in it for the long run, which is totally fine because I think people come into your life for sometimes a season or sometimes along like a couple of seasons. And if it’s just a season, you know, what are the lessons that can be learned to not? And I always focus on after I’ve gone through the grieving,
after I’ve gone through the process, what are the amazing lessons that I learned here? What can I take away from this so that I can continue to grow and improve my own life moving forward? So it’s like, okay, well, I learned that I don’t like this in a relationship or learnt that I do like this thing in relationship. Maybe there’s things that surprised you in shock to you that you’re like,
I didn’t realize that about myself. And you can take that and move on to the next space and go, okay, well, I know that I acted this certain way in the relationship. Let’s work on that before I dive into another one and keep repeating that same thing. I need to learn this lesson before I move on to the next thing. And sometimes the grieving process of a relationship.
Whenever I coach someone who is going through a breakup, the one of the first thing I tell them is this may take a while. And whenever someone says, yeah, I just broke up with my boyfriend last night and I’m never going to see him again. I go, okay, knowing that as virtually yet in many, many, many cases happens,
is that the next week we get on the phone and they say, oh, I feel really bad about myself. I went to the bar last night and ended up back in his bed. And, and so sometimes it can be this on just this, you know, to use Gwyneth Paltrow’s much maligned, goop terminology. It’s this uncoupled, it’s this conscious uncoupling that is harder in many cases to achieve.
Then you might think it takes a while, especially if you’ve been with the person for awhile. And you’ve created an identity together to just snap your fingers and be completely separated. Sometimes it’s, it’s kind of an ongoing process. Sometimes you’re having the breakup conversation several times that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re weak or you’re crazy, or you’re, you have horrible indecision.
And sometimes it just means you, you you’re two human beings whose souls have become intertwined. And you’re going about the process of extracting yourself. And that’s okay, too. And for all of the people who, who have been horribly betrayed and who have felt that, for example, that you’ve had energy vampires in your life, that you’re very happy to be,
to be, to just be moved on from that’s okay, too. You know, when I’m having conversations like this, I have realized that I’m just one soul having this very individual unique human experience. And so I speak less as an expert and someone rather who’s in the trenches with all of you, because I go through so many of the problems that everyone else does too.
And it’s, it’s been my work to just look really closely and deeply at the emotional contours and the psychological tricks that are happening as all of these things are happening to me as much as to the people with whom I work. Oh yeah. We’re all humans. We all, it’s so crazy. Sometimes people look at you and they’re like, oh, but you have to be perfect.
You’re this person. Or they look at somebody like Oprah and they’re like, oh no, she’s perfect. And it’s like, yeah, but you don’t know Oprah as an individual, as like a personal friend. You don’t know the stuff behind the scenes, you just see what’s presented to the world, but we’re all just human beings going through the same thing.
And I think that the more people realize that everybody else is going through the same stuff. That’s why I love communities so much. And why I’m learning so deeply right now about connecting with community in a different way is because everybody’s going through so much of the similar stuff and you don’t realize it until you come together in community and you go, oh my gosh,
you too. Like, you was like, you’re going through that as well. And then you can come together and go, okay, so I’m not alone. And it builds that social aspect of being human, like coming together and like learning and growing together. And, and it’s just so much part of the journey to be like, yup. I mean,
I’ve had not bad breakouts, but I’ve had like uncomfortable situations and uncomfortable conversations with people or like things have gone completely wrong in relationship regardless. And it’s just like, oh God. And I’ve acted. I wouldn’t say out of integrity because I always trying like conduct myself well, but like, there’s, I’m a human man. Like I might say something that might be shitty.
And then as long as I come around and realize it, I apologize for it. That’s when I’m making sure I’m standing in my integrity. Like, yeah, we’re all human. I might have a slip up or something might go wrong, but I look at it and I think about it and I go, okay, I was in the wrong, let’s come back and have another conversation about this.
I actually had, I was seeing somebody here in Toronto for a number of months when the pandemic first started. And then we got to a place where we were like, Hey, this isn’t right for us. But the way we navigated that was very uncomfortable for me. And, and it was, it, it went in a very skewed direction that I didn’t think it would go because this was such a beautiful human being.
And I was like, how could this conversation be going so wacky and so wrong? But, you know, they’re just a human being just like I am just because, you know, they’re happy go lucky doesn’t mean that they have their own wounds and their own stuff that they’re navigating. And, and when we ended it there, it didn’t feel good.
So then when we circled back round, it was like, Hey, I don’t feel good about the way things got left. Would you be open to having another conversation just to make sure that like, you know, anything that maybe wasn’t in integrity or whatever, we could just kind of have a redo and then we did. And it just felt so much better on both of our sides.
We both felt like, okay, yeah. The first one was kind of just getting out the anger and the upset and kind of the grieving. And then the second conversation was more like, okay, no, this is who we are. This is the good stuff. This is like, we want to be friends. And obviously we want to be in each other’s lives because there was a connection there.
But now we’re realizing it’s meant to be in a friendship way, not in a romantic sexual way. And that’s okay, You go, there you go. You know, it took a couple conversations to, to, to, to get, to get it right. And I think it’s always possible, even though sometimes things that were, would have been better left on said were indeed said,
and feelings may have been hurt when you get in this mindset of realizing everyone’s human, everyone’s struggling on in some way, or pressing toward some ideal and often falling shore. It’s easier to call someone or send them a message and say, Hey, no hard feelings and recognize that the deeper part of them knows that what they did was out of integrity to use your words counting.
And the same is true of me. And th the things that I’ve done in the past, some of them that I know to be out of integrity. I, I, I know that deep down and it makes it a lot easier to forgive and to ask for forgiveness to realize that I think, I think one of the best things that somebody can also learn is that when you’re going,
when people are dating and they’re starting to go on dates, and then they realize, Hey, this isn’t the right connection for me, or this isn’t a matchup for me, this whole energy around ghosting, or just like not wanting to hurt another person’s feelings. I think we need to kind of cultivate a new responsibility in that regard that it’s not hurting somebody’s feelings by telling them the truth.
If you do it in a loving and compassionate way, it example is I went on a walk the other day with somebody who I was chatting with and was like, cool, let’s go for a walk and see if there’s an energy here, went for a walk. The energy was not there for me. And so afterwards, I had to take the responsibility upon myself and go look,
I know that this energy isn’t a match for me. So I need to write this person and say, Hey, it was really great meeting you. I really enjoyed the time you shared with me the connection we have. Isn’t a match for me, but I still really enjoyed getting to know you as a person. Thank you so much. And it’s a simple and easy,
just like, Hey, I really enjoyed you. Your energy is cool. It’s not the energy I’m looking for. It’s not a match for me, but I still appreciate the time you took and thank you. And he was like, oh yeah, cool, no problem. Like I, you know, had a good time, have a good one.
And I think people have a lot more respect for that. And I think that if more people could learn that you’re not hurting somebody’s feelings, by being honest, as long as you’re being conscious of how you do it, as long as you’re not saying, oh, it was terrible. Or it was awful, just lead with love and compassion that there would be so many more,
there would be a lot less hurts happening because you’re hurting people more often by ghosting them or by like leading them on because you don’t have the courage, I guess you could say to just say, Hey, it’s not the right vibe for me. I wish you, well, thank you so much for your time. You’re absolutely right. The word, you know,
the word just being straightforward and what being straight forward can do is give both you and the other person, whether it’s a friend or a lover, give you clarity, because one of the most menacing sort of like suspicion inducing things is vagueness and lack of clarity. And so, like you just said, it’s you, you, you’re kind of helping someone else by telling them how you,
Jen, how you genuinely feel. And you can see, you can have so many friends and acquaintances in this life. And so I always thought about dating as, as meeting, just meeting new people. And I think it’s particularly tricky with gays because we don’t always know what the intention is like, am I going to the movies, or am I going for a cocktail with someone?
Do they have the intention of, of something bigger than a relationship? Or are they sexually attracted to me or not? Because that just has a different energetic dynamic that begins to unfold. And so it’s always nice to do your best, to be clear and the best way to learn how to be clear is by trying and over time, over many attempts with different people to be calm,
clear, and compassionate, the three CS you’ll learn how to do it and do it very well. But your first, maybe a couple times of reaching out to be clear with someone, it will be maybe a little awkward, maybe a little uncomfortable that’s okay. If they are in the right heart space themselves, which is quality. You want people around you to have,
if they’re in the right heart space, they’ll, they’ll forgive your awkwardness and clumsiness and see through to the intention behind what you were trying to do, which is offer clarity. I love that because I, oh, one of Bernay Brown’s quotes is my mantra of clear is kind unclear is unkind. And I always lead With that. Right. You always lead with that.
Is that clear as kind unclear is unkind. So anytime I’m dealing with any kind of situation, even in business or in any regard, I’m always telling myself clear as kind unclear is unkind. So if I want to be kind, if I want to lead with compassion, I need to make sure that I’m being clear and that double checking, you know,
okay. How about you repeat back to me what was said or something that regards to it’s like, okay. Yes. What I’m saying is being heard correctly because people interpret things differently as well. They’re not always going to be interpreted the same way, even though you might be kind to this person, they might still be in that upset that this relationship or this potential relationship in their head’s not going to happen.
And that’s okay. They might have to go through a bit of a grieving period, but you could always potentially circle back around and say, Hey, you know, how are you feeling now? And they might be like, you know what? Yeah, I was pissed off at first, but now I’m glad that you were clear with me because it allowed me to process and move through it,
as opposed to just sit in that limbo space where I think a lot of gay men sit in that limbo space with guys that are just like, you know, not confident enough to stand up and say, Hey, I’m not interested in you. And so there’s all this back and forth energy where it’s just like, look, either you’re interested or not interested.
Just be clear with me. Yeah. It’s, it’s exactly right. I think that’s why I’m so happy you’re doing what you’re doing with a community of gay men is because by virtue of talking about these things and realizing the profound effect, something like choosing clarity as compassion, by virtue of just talking about this today and having people listen and start implementing that into our lives,
we’re going to create a better community, a stronger community that has more abundance in terms of its opportunities, for connection, for real deep lasting connection, whether it be with friends or with lovers. So I just think it’s so cool what you’re doing. Nice. I do too. I love it. I hope the guys listening. Love it too. So for everybody who is listening,
I want to ask you, cause you were talking about, you know, that limbo period of where there, you know, is this a date? Is it just a cocktail? Is it just a movie? How Do you go about, or how can you tell if it’s a date? Cause for me, I make sure that when I’m asking somebody out,
I make it clear that I am interested in them romantically. And I say, Hey, I would like to take you out on a date. And I say specifically that this is what I want. I don’t say, Hey, let’s hang out, Hey, let’s go for coffee. Hey, let’s go to a movie. I say, I would like to take you out on a date to go get a coffee or to go do something else so that they know there’s a romantic interest there.
And also in that regard, I’m the type of person that if I ask you out on the date, I am fully prepared to pay for everything because that is me asking you out. And that’s, that’s how I navigate that. But I know everybody else has different rules. So what are your rules or what are your ideas that you could give people for,
you know, navigating that like, is it isn’t it, That would be very nice if people started asking, you know, can I take you out on a date or shall we go on a date rather than, Hey, let’s, let’s hang out. I know there’ve been many situations in my life where when, you know, I thought people were genuinely wanting to hang out with me to be,
to have fun and to make a new friend. And in many circumstances when realized that have a different intention and I expressed to them, you know, I’m not looking for, I’m not looking for, for romance with you when I’ve said that that’s when the ghosting will happen for me. And that that’s been sad. It’s been, it’s, it’s been sad sometimes because you’re like,
oh, I wish you had told me upfront, you were, you wanted to go on a date. And some of those situations, I may have said, you know what, let me think about it. Okay. Yeah. Let’s go on a date and see if, see if it would work out. So I really appreciate the fact that you say,
I want to go on a date and moreover, that you’re willing to pay for it. That’s kind of a different story. But the, just the, the straight clear intention I think is also has the added benefit of being sexy. Yeah. The confidence there, the confidence of like, okay, Because even if, you know, even if I have such mad respect for guys that even if I’m not attracted to them or sexually attracted to them,
if they have the confidence to come up to me or to approach me and say, Hey, I want to take you out on a date. I find you attractive. Even if I’m a no on that regard, I’m still like, but you had the confidence to do that. I still think you are an awesome person. And you know, I’ve done that as well.
I’ve been shot down. I don’t, I mean, that might not be the nicest way of saying it, but like, I’ve been shut down. And as long as it’s done with compassion and like genuine, like love behind it and like, Hey, it’s just not the right fit for me. I personally can quickly turn to cool. I still think you’re amazing.
So let’s be friends because you’ve shut the romance off in my head. And I’m like a clear person. So if you shut that off, I’m like, cool. Move on. Like, I don’t need to ruminate on what could have been, because I know that there’s so many other amazing guys out there I’ve met so many amazing guys that this is another way the universe is saying not the right one,
but getting closer. And so just that, oh yeah. Being clear. And that makes me happy. Very, very, very sexy. When a gay man walks up to another gay man and says, you know, he here, I, you know, I wrote down my number. Here you go. Like, I would, I, I,
I I’d love to go on a date sometime, because let me tell you why, because it’s so infrequently happened. And I was talking about this with my friend last week and yeah, we, we were both like, wow, like, Hey, what’s up text really just doesn’t do it. And yet someone like walk out to you, granted we’re spending less time in public now,
but someone coming forward in any way and being clear about their desire to like take you on a date without being without, you know, you don’t have, you won’t come off as desperate. If your energy is calm, clear, and compassionate and chill. And in fact, even a little bit of nerves behind the asking, it still shows you, it still shows you that,
that this is a person who feels a little nervous, but is willing to like bust through that block and do it anyway. And that in and of itself for, for heart centered people is sexy. It’s like, wow, you, you, you have a little courage. You have courage to be clear. Yes. So th th th th those are two things we’ve spoken about today.
I think you said it’s having the courage to be clear. And I think that that’s true, whether you’re on one end of the conversation or the other, it takes courage to be clear. And in these times, I think you’re seeing the most courageous people are the ones who are really rising in their lives. And those of us who are lacking courage in any area,
whether it’s about dating and relationships, or about our businesses, the people who are lacking courage are, are not doing so well. And in fact, in many cases, at least in the public arena, they’re being exposed as not having the courage to stand in, in, in their truth and the truth. That’s a topic for another day. No,
for sure. And that also like having the courage to be clear and to, you know, do these things, it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to stumble. You’re going to stumble you’re pardon me, you’re going to stumble. You’re going to get it wrong. You’re going to mess up. But that isn’t failure. That is learning. That is growth that is building the muscle so that you can do it again and again and again,
and get better at it. The people who do it, didn’t just do it. And it was like, they were perfect at it. They practiced at it, they got better at it. They learnt, I think it’s Lewis house. I listened to his podcast often. And he talks about how, you know, he kind of just made this promise to himself one summer.
And he was just like, I’m really bad at talking to girls. He couldn’t do it. He was really uncomfortable. And he promised himself that summer that he was going to talk to every girl that he found attractive, whether it was to ask her out or just talk to her so that he could build the strength of that muscle, of getting used to being uncomfortable while talking to a girl.
And eventually he got over it so that he could talk to girls and he could ask them out. And it was fine, but that was a muscle he had to build. He had to learn. We people think that you’re just born with it or that it’s natural or that, you know, I can’t do it because I’m this way or that way.
And that is complete bullshit. You can learn to do anything you want to do. You just have to be willing to put in the time, the dedication and having a support system and a community is the best way to start doing that because you get to build those little micro muscles in a safe space so that when you go out to the real world,
when the world opens again and you go to the bar or the club, or wherever you see a guy, you have that support system, have that confidence to go. You know what? I’ll try this this one time. I might, It is going to be hard when things begin reopening, it’s going to be a little harder because all of us,
I think have, have taken our self-esteem has taken a hit because we haven’t been interacting regularly with people and feeling comfortable doing it. I mean, one thing I noticed the difference between growing up in Boston, Massachusetts, and then moving to New York city and living in New York city for 15 years. And I would go back home to visit Boston. And I noticed that people were more on edge.
They were lacking, they are lacking. Self-confidence a bit compared to new Yorkers and just very uneasy and clumsy with social interaction. And my hypothesis is because new Yorkers are on top of each other every day, you know, pre COVID like you walk, I walk out of my door to go get a cup of coffee. And like someone, you know,
a mentally unwell person yells at me, you know, horrible things about me. And it’s like, okay, dude, moving on. And then you, you know, you deal with on any given day, like 35 people, and then in a smaller town, you aren’t, you don’t have that social interaction as often. And so you can be in some circumstances a little more awkward because you’re just not used to the daily,
rubbing up against each other, so to speak and polishing your rough edges, that social interaction will do for you. And so leading from that hypothesis into what will be post COVID release, I guess, of us all into the world is that I think people are going to be a little bit rusty around the edges, a little clumsy, a little awkward.
And so it’s good that we’re talking about this today to really pin down the things that, that are going to be helpful to focus on. If I may, you know, I can, I just want to get in two more points. One of them is this that, you know, there’s a thing called pretty privileged and it’s very real. And it’s not one that’s often talked about the fact that if you’re are someone who many people consider to be conventionally attractive,
then many doors are open for you that otherwise wouldn’t be. You can, you know, the, the length of conversations that you’ll have with, with another attractive person are longer than they would be if you weren’t one of them. So putting that as a, just a fact of life, okay. Because, and there’s no way to, to, to fix that problem in life.
It’s just a reality of life. But what I’ve found to be true is that when people are focused on their charisma, which is to say spirit flowing through them, I think that’s the, that’s the meaning of the word charisma. When you’re focused on the light, the depth, the curiosity that you’re bringing into any given conversation, that’s what people are tuning into.
That’s what we’ll have them remain in conversation with you. If you’d like that. And I’ve also noticed, and I say this compassionately, that there have been many conventionally attractive people say in a photograph who, when you see them in real life, moving and speaking D they are no longer attractive. Same Goes in reverse. The same goes in reverse someone who you might see swiping on Tinder in photograph,
they appear on attractive to you. And they may be in the eyes of the world, you know, less conventionally, attractive people in truth. However, when you are with them, when they’re speaking and they’re moving their bodies, and you’re sensing the energy that’s coming out from them, things shift, and I’ve met many of very sexy, sexy man who is not conventionally attractive.
I think some people are really, I think it’s a small population. Percentage of the gay community is solely focused on getting a partner with, you know, a sick body and a beautiful conventionally handsome face. I think the rest of us normal people are really looking for someone whose energy just kind of like takes our breath away or really makes us so curious about them.
Who’s who’s light leads. And so the first point is true that some people are more conventionally attractive and there is pretty privileged. And please don’t go on the internet, yelling at people who are attracted, telling them they are pretty privileged. Okay. It’s a waste of your fucking time, cause they’re not getting any less pretty. Okay. And in fact,
as a result of dealing with bullshit like that, they’ll actually become stronger people. The first thing, the first premise can be true. And so can the second that if you focus on charisma, your charisma won’t fade, it will only get better and better. Your looks will fade and sag, but your charisma won’t. And I think that’s an important little mantra to have in your mind before you start having a conversation with someone who,
who you’re attracted to, and there’s so many YouTube videos you can find on building your charisma. And I think it’s totally possible to retain who you are as a person to retain your spirit. And at the same time, maybe work on your speaking voice or think about like a dancer might do or entertainer. Think about the way you hold your body in public.
I, I, I don’t think spirituality and self awareness and being conscious about how you’re projecting your energy into a space to another person. I don’t think those things are mutually exclusive in my own life. They’re one in the same after all, like I am not my body and my soul is driving this thing around, oh, I got miss things getting creaky already.
And I’m only 34, but so you can play around with your body. That’s why if, if you want to modify your body, but I mean, by all means, do what you want with your body. It is, as RuPaul says, you know, it’s, it’s all just drag. It’s all just drag. And if you can, as you’re modifying your body,
dyeing your hair, getting a haircut, maybe you got a nose job, maybe whatever it is, who cares, what matters is, is your light still shining through? Is your light still shining through? And do you really love that light? Do you love how unique your light is? And do you ha have you started to come into, into contact with your special soul essence and the particular gifts you have to bring into the world?
And when you do that, then your light leads. And even if you’re not a conventionally attractive person, or maybe you’re an older person, when you start doing that, you’ll notice the quality of people around you begins to shift and change, and the people who you attract to you, who might stay in, in a conversation with you for a longer period of time have,
have, have more of what you’re looking for. I think that that is true. I think what you just said, all of what you just said is so true. And I resonate on such a deep level with it because I was going to actually tell a story about a friend of mine who is not conventionally attractive, but he knows everybody in the city,
like I’m from Vancouver. He knows everybody in Vancouver. Everybody knows him, everybody adores him and loves him. And it’s because he has this charisma about him. And he’s had relationships with all sorts of people. And I’m just always looking at him and being like, man, he is the epitome and proof that what’s on the outside, you know, might have an effect on some people.
But that charisma, that energy, that soul, that you bring into the world that is truly the most important part, because I’ve been out when I’ve seen somebody who I’m like, wow, that person is gorgeous and I’ve talked to them and it’s been like a dead in the water. I’m like, oh, geez. Like this is like Zero, Zero in there.
They open their mouths and marbles fallout. And you’re just like, what? Wow. So I think we all have like noticed those people, which is why this idea kind of, of pretty privileged. And you can often, when you’re talking about relationships as a gay man, people will lament other men will lament and say, but I’m 50, but,
but I’m not attractive. And you know, my BA I’m I’m, I’m 50 pounds overweight, a hundred pounds overweight or so. And I’ve worked with some of these people and gave them a strict rule of they can lament privately to themselves, but they cannot lament to me. And over the course of our work, we work on really opening up their heart space and deepening their faith to know that they can manifest a relationship into their lives.
But you manifest like changing your energy field around you. So that resentment, it’s got to go that resentment of younger people or prettier people has got to go. Why? Because it stuck in your energy field. And we’re, we’re always, we’re always projecting our energy field into a space and other people are subconsciously and sometimes consciously can pick up on it and be like,
wow, that that person is like resentful or that person is bitter or that person is jealous or that person is afraid of something. And that, that, that literally repels other people from you just like when you, you you’re with someone and you’re you just get this feeling like, Ooh, you walk away. And maybe this just happened to me. Like two weeks ago I met someone and we got along famously.
But then after I left, I was like, I don’t feel good. I don’t feel good. Like, and then after sleeping on it, which usually turns out for all of my life, coach philosophical, bullshit sometimes just to sleep on it, Jordan, go, go to sleep, go to sleep. And then the next morning you’re like, oh yeah.
Now it’s kind of clear how I felt about that situation and why it wasn’t why it didn’t feel right to me. Just the energy was off. It was leaky. So there were a lot of energy. And when you start doing this work of opening your heart and your intuition, you can attract a lot of energy vampires who love being around you, but you feel kind of drained afterward.
And that’s part of the ups and downs and the learning, the sort of jungle of, of life. And that’s why community is so important. And now what hold on, I have to get this in. I think this will be very valuable for your listeners. One of the most important pieces of relationship, advice, dating advice that I’ve received, and that I’ve passed on to countless people who I’ve coached for whom it has never failed to work and provide results for them is if you are desperately seeking someone else or just simply seeking someone else,
but you’re, you’re talking to like 10 people and you have like conversations going on Tinder and on Grindr and Scruff or whatever those apps are. And you’re also talking to some people on Instagram, you know, points of romantic or sexual attraction for you. What you’re doing is I call it an energy splay. And so you’ve got your hands in a lot of different buckets,
or you’re kind of talking to one person over here, another person over here, you’re flirting with this person over here. Your ex is texting you that he wants to, you know, try and make things work. Your energy is going to be so splayed that it’s diffused and you won’t find any of those points of attraction to be strong enough. So I recommend for people who are looking for a relationship to take an inventory of how many people they’re currently have an energy cord to,
so to speak who they’re talking to flirting with, as well as the other sexual outlets like porn, and like, I don’t know, hookups or whatever. Maybe you’re going on Grindr hookups if see the energy splay of your life at the present moment and go on a fast and the fast should be completely self-directed if you want to do it for a week,
do it for a week. So many people have said, I don’t know if I’ll be able to do this, but I can commit to seven days, they commit to seven days and go, oh my God, Jordan, like my energy has totally shifted. I’m able to now kind of tune in to what I’m looking for and see clearly that maybe none of these people are that,
or maybe one of these people actually, I want to give them kind of my exclusive attention for a little bit. So I call that my sex romance fast and how you do it. Exactly. And for how long should be completely self-directed maybe you don’t want to stop porn. Okay, fine. But at least take an inventory of where that energy splays happening in your sexual romantic life.
And if you can pull that energy back up and just sit with it and see how your energy shifts over the course of days or weeks, I think it will do so many people who are listening, who are seeking a more meaningful relationship. It will shift the energy greatly. And so I hope that that that’s serves someone who’s listening. I love that.
And I, I agree. I, I have, I think I have hinge and Tinder, but I’ll not go on. I’m like, I’ll put them on pause for like weeks months. And I just went on recently and that’s how I went on this walk with this person, just because every once in a while I like to tune in and say,
okay, who’s on what’s going on. What’s the energy. Like, maybe try see if there’s a date, see if there’s something. And then if there’s nothing going on, I’ll try a couple of things and then go, okay. Time to shut it down again, focus on me. And like, it just wasn’t right, because I never know.
Maybe somebody will pop through and that energy will be great, but I I’m like you, I don’t spread it all around to like a ton of different people. I pick one or two people that I’m like, yeah, there’s a vibe. There’s an energy here. Let’s see if it could go somewhere. And if it doesn’t cool, let’s take another little break and,
you know, put that away, but it can become an addiction so quickly and so easily that, you know, you have to have other focuses in your life that you’re enjoying, that you can focus on so that that’s not the only thing going on. And I think that that’s a problem with a lot of the apps is that people do it out of boredom and they put a focus on it and then it becomes an addiction.
And then that’s when it’s like, you really need to take a fast, you need to take a break. I also wanted to say, going back to the, the pretty privileged on the charisma in the long run looks will fade. Like you said, looks fade, but your personality does not like, I, I, I use my mom as an example.
This is funny, but my mom she’s in her sixties now. And she still talks like, I don’t know what I want to do when I grow up. And like her mind, I love it. Being able to talk to her now because she talks to me and tells me things like, man, my brain is still the same as when I was in my twenties.
It’s just the outside that changed. And like, she’s like, I’m wiser and I know more, but like at the end of the day, I still wanted like have fun and enjoy and like have personality and all of these things. And those are the things that are so important so I think it’s really important when you are looking for somebody, especially if you’re only using the apps to be conscious about using apps.
And in-person, I know it’s a pandemic right now, but things will shift. We will be able to go back out again. And I always find the greatest connections when I talk to somebody in person, whether it be over the phone, whether it be a zoom date or a Skype date, or whether that be like in-person out meeting them, because it’s so different.
Like you said, looking at a photo and be like, wow, this person’s really attractive. Beautiful. And then you talk to them and marbles falls out, you know? So it’s like the sooner you can rip that bandaid off and not play those stories in your head of like how beautiful your life will be together. The sooner you can kind of just be like,
oh cool. This person is not a match. And you didn’t use up all that time. Imagining the stuff that wasn’t going to exist, you got in, you’re like, Hey, this person’s cute. Let’s have a voice like a voice chat or let’s have a video chat, get it done over with wow. There an energy there. Cool. Let’s continue to invest in this because there’s potential there.
Or it’s like, no, there was no energy here. But remember that those pretty people will eventually not be able to lean on their pretty side and that the personalities will shine through. So that’s one of the saddest things in the gay community is that when you put your focus on your, on your physical attractiveness, at the expense of focusing on your animating factor,
that’s another thing you could call it. You know, what is the energy that animates you when you’re not focused on charisma or your energy field or your heart space? And you just focus on, on fussing with your physical appearance appearance. I mean, I’ve seen it countless times, especially in New York city. And now I’m in Miami. I moved to Miami where there is no shortage of beautiful people with incredible bodies and they flaunted,
many of whom are gay. And my concern because I’ve had, you know, formerly very attractive gay men who are now older, maybe in their fifties or sixties who have experienced such a great sense of loss and grief and ruminating about the past, because they have lost that physical edge that they had. And they now realize they were focusing on their appearance and all of the great things that their appearance could get them in their early,
earlier years of life without really focusing on the HeartSpace. So I, for one have no fear of like losing whatever attractiveness I have because I have focused for so many years on that enter the energy field I have around me and focusing on how I treat other people and focusing in a conversation, for example, with someone new who I’m meeting and getting to know about on what I can give,
rather than what I can get from them. There’s just this variety, this huge variety of little tools you can use to make your energy lighter and brighter, more radiant, more abundant. And I like your mom and very much looking forward to all of the years, I had to have a head of God-willing for the wisdom that they’ll bring me, because I wouldn’t go back to my twenties.
If you paid me, I say this all the time. Like my twenties, I was really hanging around and in New York, like figuring out my life and I was doing the same work I’m doing, but I was also very much in the trenches. What I told you at the beginning of our conversation, very much in the trenches. And that was a more chaotic time.
I feel more settled with my life. As I grow older, the people around me are of higher and higher quality people that I can trust people who I cry with and laugh with. And that’s just a shift in focus that I think we can all consciously make as gay men. When w when we go out into the world, whether we go to the gay bar or somewhere else,
you have that little mantra with you and the Uber ride there, right? Have that little laundry with you. Like I’m really going to be conscious of my energy and how I can positively affect the other gay men in this room tonight. And that cannot fail, but help you help you change the quality of people that you are attracting into your life. Yes.
I was going to say that exact same thing. I was going to say, focus on what you can give, not what you can get. And when you focus on what you can give and just being, you know, a beautiful person with charisma and energy and just being like, I just want to make everybody’s night super great. I want to make them laugh.
I want to make sure that they’re having fun and enjoying themselves that energy will attract people to you. It’s so wild when you focus on doing that, that’s when everybody just comes to you and you’re just like, what? But that’s an experiment you gotta do, but be willing to do that experiment. So we’re coming to the end here, Jordan. And I just want to say it has been absolutely lovely talking to you again.
You’re such a beautiful soul, such a beautiful person. I love our chats. Where can everybody find you? If they want to check you out, You can find me on Instagram at George Jordan, Bach B a C H, or go to my website, the Bach book.com and sign up for my email newsletter. Perfect. Awesome. Well, we might have to get you Bach for more next time Or your dad jokes.
Yeah. It’s been amazing having you for everybody out there listening, please. If you’re watching this on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and give us a thumbs up. It helps everybody else discover it, share it around. If you’re listening to this on a podcast, give us a star rating on whatever platform you’re on again, shared around. And if you’re not yet in our private members group,
the gay men’s brotherhood, where we supply peer to peer support for gay men going on their personal development journey, please join us all that information will be in the notes for you. And thank you again so much, Jordan, for having this magical conversation. Thank you, Calan.